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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Who makes up the trans community - and are they a community?

12 replies

loveyouradvice · 22/06/2018 01:12

This is me trying to puzzle out the various constituents, as a relatively naive new-comer - and aware that no one has all the answers, but that together we may have a good number. And one thing that constantly strikes me is that they do not feel like a community, given the rights of different groups within the transgender umbrella can be in conflict. And equally that there is comparatively little research, with some research being shut down (James Caspian in Bath, etc)

My understanding is that:

  • there are a very small number of classically "gender dysphoric"... those who are clear from birth - a figure I read was 1 in 1600 for males, 1 in 2700 for females or thereabouts. These include the transsexuals many of us have known for years. Most are just getting on with their lives, a few like Miranda Yardley are outspoken. These are the ones with a diagnoseable "mental health" issue, who the NHS is there to treat (with counselling and surgery, where appropriate) - and the ones most likely to lose out if NHS funding becomes under threat with the recategorisation. Some see themselves as retaining their natal sex, others see themselves as changing sex.
  • Adolescent and young adult females: the fastest growing group of transpeople, which has not been adequately explained, beyond the recognition that, like many teenage health phenomena, social contagion is likely to play a part. Having 8 teenage girls declare themselves trans on one year group, as has happened in schools, is statistically improbable - some indeed may be trans, but it is likely not to be the explanation for all.
Concerns are being raised by people working with this group that almost all fall into one of these categories: childhood abuse (leading to hatred of one's vulnerable body), autism (seen as having a male brain) and a reluctance to be seen as gay, especially if butch (the lowest in the "traditional social hierarchy", with hetero men at the top, women, gay men, more feminine lesbians all "above" them)
  • Older men transitioning who have often had a history of cross-dressing, alongside a classically hetero lifestyle (wife, kids) - and possibly a disproportionate number in very "male roles": anecdotally there has been a lot of comment about military and IT, but I don't think there have been any studies? Many of these seem to meet the criteria for autogynephilia. And there seems to be the range of transition from occasional cross-dressing, while continuing to live "as a man" for the majority of the time to fulltime transition, including full surgery, although the majority who have surgery retain male genitalia (I've seen figures from 70-95%).
  • Younger men .... my understanding is that some do of course have gender dysphoria, that others are auto-gynphiliac or have had abusive childhoods. It seems to be a more disparate group than younger women.

That there is currently a huge increase in the numbers declaring themselves transgender, for many reasons

  • social media enabling like-minded people to meet and give each other courage,
  • the cultural changes which mean being trans is more acceptable than before
- and with teenagers, numbers are likely to be inflated by the recognition that for a group where a large number are gender-querying as part of their natural growing into adulthood, being "trans" is seen as very desirable with special treatment and celebrations amongst classmates

Please be tolerant with me - I have tried to use the appropriate language and am keen not to offend anyone, I'm aware my brain can be a little slow and am keen to try and understand more of this incredibly important current phenomenon.

OP posts:
thebewilderness · 22/06/2018 01:44

There was a time when the LGBT organizations created a sense of community for members. That is no longer true for most Lesbians and Gays.
University still creates the illusion of community for some transgender because their protected characteristic is given priority over other students.

BettyDuMonde · 22/06/2018 02:26

This is the classic 2 types of M born transperson as described by Blanchard that has been the dominant theory for years (although it's not popular with TRA types who seem to reject the entire notion of AGP - I guess because it makes it less magical-sounding ('a girl trapped in a boys body') and more pervy-sounding ('I started by wearing my ex wife's knickers under my macho-uniform and it escalated from there')

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blanchard%27s_transsexualism_typology

In contemporary culture terms, Laverne Cox would be the first type and Caitlyn Jenner the second.

I don't know if there is a similar description of F born trans people - I believe that historically the numbers have been very low and recently that has completely changed and there are now more F born people being referred to gender clinics than there are M born people.

The term ROGD is often employed to describe the current phenomenon (Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria) but TRA are trying to denounce that it's a thing.

It was a community, albeit an underground one, there have been support groups for decades. I've been to my local one as a guest.

It welcomed all types, although it was mostly older cross dressing men who were in long term marriages and 'dressed' only at meetings and occasional events. I think most wives knew about it but didn't want to see it.

The friend I went with is a very sweet type 1, who has wanted to live as a woman since childhood but has some fairly serious unrelated health issues that make her high risk for hormone therapy, so has spent 25 odd years stuck in a frustrated full time social transition without being able to go any further. At the other end of the spectrum was someone who crossdressed as a full-on frilly sissy little girl. It made no real sense for them to be a group, but I suppose it functioned the same way for everyone, somewhere safe to go, where you wouldn't be judged.

Where the current crop of high profile M-born media darlings fit in, I have no idea, but they wouldn't want to hang out at the TG support group, that's for sure!

PoulaFisch · 22/06/2018 02:41

Why not contact some trans people or groups and ask them? Wouldn't that be more appropriate?

Dragoncake · 22/06/2018 08:12

Poula, what groups would be a reliable source of information in your view?

LangCleg · 22/06/2018 09:16

Why not contact some trans people or groups and ask them? Wouldn't that be more appropriate?

Because all of the trans lobby groups are at great pains to deny there is ever a sexual motive for transition, which is prima facie false. It takes approximately two seconds online to see this. I think the Blanchard typology is too simplistic to represent the full current trans population but it takes some chutzpah to pretend it doesn't cover a good percentage of it.

Damnthatonestakentryanother2 · 24/06/2018 01:46

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Snappity · 24/06/2018 02:41

"This is the classic 2 types of M born transperson as described by Blanchard that has been the dominant theory"

It very definitely isn't the dominant theory

Terfulike · 24/06/2018 02:50

I think the poster meant that they have facial reconstruction surgery and retain male genitalIan - a very common outcome for the AGP group by all accounts.

Terfulike · 24/06/2018 02:52

It very much is the dominant theory on these pages Snapper sorry about that.

TransplantsArePlants · 24/06/2018 06:39

It is simply not possible to have GRS and "retain male genitalia"

Yes it is possible. Facial surgery, breast augmentation (plus hormones). No 'bottom surgery'.

And to obtain the GRC (Gender Recognition Certificate) you do not need to have had 'bottom surgery'

thebewilderness · 24/06/2018 06:47

I think Jenner was the person who brought to people's attention the fact that when mature transitioners say they had GRS it does not include genital surgery. Interviewers asked Jenner about it because they expected it to be traumatic given his public career. They were surprised when he said he had not yet decided if he would have genital surgery.

TransplantsArePlants · 24/06/2018 06:53

And that is true in the country as well. The route to obtaining a GRC does require a doctor to state why a person is not seeking surgery, but that's it. It doesn't require them to have had surgery

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