Can I get a link to some statistics for reply to an MP

[WhatTheWatersShowedMe]

Hiya

Got an email from MP in reply to mine asking for his views on the GRA. His reply was long and cited a lot of stats with regards to trans people’s rates of suicide attempts, risk of being victims rape, and homelessness, which were frankly extraordinary.

Before I write my reply to him I’d like to know if what he claims is verifiable.

The claims were:

• Trans people are 1% of the population
• 9 in 10 will attempt to commit suicide

-Half will face homelessness -Trans life expectancy is 10 years less than the rest of the average population. -Transwomen are raped at a rate 3x higher than natal women.

These statistics were not backed up by any kind of citation and seem extremely high. I’ve certainly never seen the rape statistic before and the suicide attempt one is way higher than what I’ve seen cited in the media (usually the claim is half of transpeople attempt to take their lives).

Can anyone link me to decent, peer reviewed studies so I can fact check this?

I can't link but I would definitely respond to that and say these are all bogus statistics why are you using them?

If he's making the claims, ask him for the sources. You can't fact check his figures if you don't know where they've come from.

I'd ask him if, given those statistics, we should be celebrating teenagers who declare they are trans, and not instead helping them come to terms with their biological sex.

Ask him for his sources because those are all demonstrably false statistics.

fairplayforwomen.com/fact-checker/

www.transgendertrend.com/a-scientist-reviews-transgender-suicide-stats/

fairplayforwomen.com/mermaids-tg-lying-unprofessional/

Also, The Samaritans have published guidelines concerning the reporting of suicide, and many organisations and individuals who should know better don't use them.

www.samaritans.org/media-centre/media-guidelines-reporting-suicide

''Use statistics with caution. Check with Samaritans or the relevant national statistical agency to make sure you have the most recent data and are comparing like with like.''
www.samaritans.org/media-centre/media-guidelines-reporting-suicide/suicide-reporting-10-things-remember

Trans life expectancy is 10 years less than the rest of the average population.

I'll bet you a fiver that is comparing the life expectancy of biological males with the life expectancy of biological females. I would imagine the rest is either a) transwomen who are sex workers in Latin America b) some unscientific self-selecting online survey c) some figures a trans organisation or someone on Twitter just plucked out of the air. But, yes, the onus is on him to provide the sources.

However, I think we also need to concentrate on women's rights because we can spend so much time disputing the lies and misleading information that transactivists spew out - and it only takes them a second to make something up while it takes us lots of work to dispute it.

Imagine we were talking about homelessness. Now, I absolutely agree that homelessness is a massive problem, has a terrible effect on people and massively reduces life expectancy - and the politicians should do something about it.

What if the politicans solved this by making a law that all women who live on their own -and have a spare space in their bed - are required to leave their front door unlocked at night with a sign stating this so that any homeless person (or maybe someone else with some other motive...) can come in and have somewhere to sleep for the night. This would massively increase night shelter provision for homeless people,

When women object they will then be given stats on how privileged women are compared to the plight of homeless people and therefore told that they need to accept it - or at least accept it until women (because the onus is on us) find an alternative solution that everyone else is happy with.

If that sounds crazy, it is no more crazy than what is happening here.

If you wrote to him about the GRA, these statistics, apart from the fact that they look like he just pulled random figures out of the air, are irrelevant.

It looks as though he is trying to shut you up by implying that you are trying to persecute a vulnerable minority group. You could ask for the sources, as I suggested earlier, but this is just playing into his hands.

I would ignore the bogus figures, and write again, with an emphasis on the effects on women and girls of GRA reform and the application of the Equality Act. The issue for women is in the conflict between a transgender person's right to identify as they wish, versus the safety of women and girls from people with penises. Whether or not transgender people suffer from high levels of suicide, homlessness or shortened life expectancy is irrelevant to this issue.

Just wanted to pop back in and say the advice on this thread has been gold, thank you all.

My letter to him was focussed on the impact of GRA changes on women and girls which he absolutely did nothing to address.

The 1% figure comes from GIRES and they cited it in their evidence to the Women and Equalities Trans Inquiry. It's based on a study in the Netherlands and extrapolated to the wider U.K. population.

The rest are all nonsense but as pp said best to ignore as you don't know where he's got them from. I've never seen even trans orgs claiming 9 out of 10 trans people attempt suicide.

it only takes them a second to make something up while it takes us lots of work to dispute it.

I agree. Not only is arguing not effective but more importantly you have to realise why someone is using made-up facts in the first place:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullshit#Bullshit_asymmetry_principle

OldCrone I really like your advice here. It's so easy to get distracted from talking about women and girls, especially when our socialisation to be kind to others above ourselves is used against us.

I agree with other posters. He hasn't addressed what will happen to WOMEN and GIRLS. I've found this fact sheet helpful, if you haven't seen it already sages.org.uk/publications/sages-factsheet.html

The 9 out of 10 attempted suicide rate is nowhere near what has been quoted elsewhere, including on Stonewall's website ("Nearly half (48 per cent) of trans people under 26 said they had attempted suicide, and 30 per cent said they had done so in the past year, while 59 per cent said they had at least considered doing so," www.stonewall.org.uk/media/lgbt-facts-and-figures). I've seen similar figures in other sources, of total rates between 40-50% (obviously still FAR too high and completely unacceptable). These data are usually all taken from surveys (which means respondents may be self-selected and subject to their own interpretations of questions), and I am not always sure they screen for other mental health conditions such as depression and anxiety. It's a very complex issue. And if your MP is at all worried about getting accurate data on how many trans people actually die each year from suicide (because I am), ask him why this FOI to the Office of National Statistics basically said they couldn't answer the question of what the actual transgender population size was, or the suicide rate. www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/transgenderpopulationfigures

UK life expectancy stats.
www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/lifeexpectancies/bulletins/nationallifetablesunitedkingdom/2014to2016#main-points

Separated by sex, obviously;)

But again. Absolutely you should keep the focus on women and girls. Insist that he answers those questions first, and deals with your actual concerns.

Q: "I'm concerned about the risks to girls in this clearly defined situation. What do you think?"

A: "Isn't it terrible that nearly 100% of trans people attempt suicide?"

What's alarming is that this is an MP who has obviously been groomed by TRAs to believe things that are completely and utterly false.

MPs unfortunately do influence policy so it would be a disaster to ignore any of the stats this MP quoted and believes.

OP I'm sorry but please do all you can to dispute the bogus statistics and assert the impact trans/self-ID idology has on women and girls.

Agree with pp that you should try to address at least some of the stats. Even if you ask for and try to make the mp question the sources.

It is quite scary that they would uncritically cite such disinformation.

I’m planning on asking him where the stats came from as if they are real that suggests that radical reform is needed to address these clear issues for the good of transpeople.

I plan on devoting the rest of my reply to say he has not adequately answered my concerns re women and girls.

I’m also planning to visit him at his surgery with verified stats and information.

Ask him for the source and methodology of the stats. If they are from stonewall their methodology is shit.

Also ask him something along these lines (shamelessly pinched from here) Has there been an equality impact assessment carried out in this scenario which takes into account the potential competing equality strands and protected characteristics, in this case sex and self-identifying transgender?