Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

RadFemLawyer 'thread on sex and gender, and why public authorities are legally misguided to use gender instead of sex and/or to conflate the two terms'

17 replies

R0wantrees · 18/06/2018 19:04

RadFemLawyer writes:

"Section 11(a) of the Equality Act 2010 provides that a reference to a person who has the protected characteristic of sex is a reference to a "man" or a "woman".

You may think that man/woman sounds like it means gender, in the current societal sense?

  1. But it does not, at least not in terms of the Equality Act 2010.

A "man" means a male of any age, and a "woman" means a female of any age — see section 212(1).

Male/female are sex-based biological, categories, are they not? (notwithstanding intersex conditions).

  1. Further, section 4 of the Equality Act is rather clear. The protected characteristic is sex.

"Sex" thus equals male/female.

Gender and/or gender identity, do not appear in section 4. Gender reassignment status is also separately defined/protected.

  1. To me, at least, it is noteworthy that the drafters of the Equality Act 2010 did not take the opportunity to substitute the word ‘gender’ for ‘sex’ in recognition of the increasingly popular use of the phrase ‘gender discrimination’ to describe discrimination based on sex.
  2. It may have been felt that the word ‘sex’ connotes the physiology of being male or female, whereas the word ‘gender’ imports wider connotations such as societal assumptions about the roles of the sexes, thus giving the term a political and social dimension...
  3. The Equality Act, nevertheless, opts for the word ‘sex’ when referring to discrimination between males and females.

This is important.

  1. However, The Equality Act 2010 uses the word ‘gender’ when dealing with discrimination against trans people or those undergoing the process of gender reassignment. This is not actually surprising. It makes sense that gender applies here, as it perhaps ought to.
  2. The Equality Act also contains provisions relating to the good old ‘gender pay gap’ in the context of the right to equal pay — see section 78. Perhaps because sex-pay gap didn't sound good.

So one can see why gender can sometimes wander in. But they are not synonymous terms.

  1. Further, under the Public Sector Equality Duty (section 149 EA 2010), a public authority must have due regard to the need to:
(a) eliminate discrimination, harassment, victimisation and any other conduct that is prohibited by or under the Equality Act; ... 9.(b)advance equality of opportunity between persons who share a relevant protected characteristic and persons who do not share it;(c)foster good relations between persons who share a relevant protected characteristic and persons who do not share it.

"Protected characteristic"🧐
10. As I said, the 9 protected characteristics, including sex, and not including gender, are listed at section 4 of the Equality Act.

How can a public authority comply with their PSED if they don't know/understand the protected characteristics? That is concerning.
11. Also - The Equality Act 2010, Schedule 3, Part 7: separate, single and concessionary services etc. on single-sex services - this particular provision uses sex, not gender.

(See @fairplaywomen for more on that one.)
12. Also - per Schedule 16: associations: exceptions - Single characteristic associations

"1(1) An association does not contravene section 101(1) by restricting membership to persons who share a protected characteristic."

Those pesky "protected characteristics" again..!
13. TL;DR?

Sex ≠ Gender. At least not in law, anyway.

The protected characteristics matter. #SexMatters

The Public Sector Equality Duty matters."

threadreaderapp.com/thread/1008754218705014784.html

OP posts:
OP posts:
R0wantrees · 18/06/2018 19:18

From WPUK:
"Grassroots women’s pressure forces local authorities to comply with the law over sex and gender
Local councils around Britain have been forced to change legally inaccurate equalities information on their websites by women’s rights campaigners. Many authorities have been found to be in breach of the Equalities Act by stating that “gender” is a protected characteristic, as opposed to “sex,” and some authorities have listed the two terms interchangeably, which they have sought to rectify due to sustained campaigning..." continues

womansplaceuk.org/grassroots-womens-pressure-forces-local-authorities-to-comply-with-the-law-over-sex-and-gender/

Worth following Jean Hatchet for updates: twitter.com/JeanHatchet/status/1007660546773192704

OP posts:
LaSqrrl · 20/06/2018 22:53

It is a messy thing to read (the EA). Some parts are confusing beyond belief.

Waddlelikeapenguin · 20/06/2018 22:59

Thank you Rowan I am enjoying the increasingly terse email replies from my council - this will help Grin

ElliePhantW33 · 20/06/2018 23:38

My boyfriend enjoyed emailing the council's to tip them off about this and similar threads, bragging doesn't people anywhere just tips people off

Waddlelikeapenguin · 21/06/2018 00:19

ElliePhantW33
Eh? Confused

Picassospaintbrush · 21/06/2018 00:27

So what are you saying ElliephantW33

Can we translate?

You have spotted that a group of women are concerned that the failure of protections designed for the safeguarding of females - children and adults, is being pointed out to those responsible, so you got a man to insist that the protections must be eroded?

You are asking a man to do that for you? And are gloating about asking a man to do that on a feminist board?

Elletorro · 21/06/2018 00:28

Picasso

Leave him he’s not worth it

VoleClock · 21/06/2018 09:44

Thanks for this. I have looked at my council's stuff and sometimes they use gender to cover the 'sex' and 'gender reassignment' protected categories and sometimes they don't - I feel a letter coming on.

Juells · 21/06/2018 09:51

@ElliePhantW33

My boyfriend enjoyed emailing the council's to tip them off about this and similar threads

Is there a word missing? Enjoyed emailing the council's what?

He's tipping them off that they've got things wrong, and that sex and gender are not interchangeable?

Good for him!

Theinconstantgardener · 21/06/2018 09:53

Thank you Rowan I am enjoying the increasingly terse email replies from my council - this will help

^^
this

PositivelyPERF · 21/06/2018 09:58

My boyfriend enjoyed emailing the council's to tip them off about this and similar threads

That’s brilliant @ElliePhantW33. I’m delighted that your boyfriend is finally waking up to reality and realising men can’t become women. I know it’s probably very difficult for him to face that reality but please let him know we appreciate him helping women, by letting his council know that they are getting confused about sex and gender. The support is much appreciated. 😁

Turmericky · 21/06/2018 10:11

So your squeeze is emailing councils telling them they might have got something wrong, giving them the chance to put it right before someone else emails them telling them they might have got something wrong.
I say, that's splendid.

Cascade220 · 21/06/2018 10:21

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Juells · 21/06/2018 10:29

Hard to believe someone thinks they're scoring a point 🤣

UpstartCrow · 21/06/2018 10:54

'Sex', 'male' and 'female', 'man' and 'woman' refer to biological sex. Its clear from other parts of the Act; the pregnancy section refers to 'woman' and 'she', not persons or pregnant people.

haXXor · 21/06/2018 12:32

@ElliePhantW33, tipping councils off doesn't alter the reality that the EA protects sex. LTB, he doesn't value women, which means he doesn't value you. He'll keep you around for as long as you are useful to patriarchy, then he'll kick you to the kerb.

New posts on this thread. Refresh page
Swipe left for the next trending thread