You are denying my existence

[ResistanceIsNecessary]

I see this offered up on a regular basis in response to gender critical debates and discourse; that the act of wanting to discuss or question the potential consequences of the proposed GRA changes, equates to denying the existence of trans-people.

I don't understand this as an argument. How does questioning someone's right to self-identify as a particular sex class and access sex-segregated spaces, translate to denying their existence? Does this tie back into the mantra of "authentic self"?

Accusations that we are as Hitler to the Jews!

So unbelievably insulting and triggering to those who lost family and loved ones in the Holocaust!

Related is this outrageous, baseless claim that small groups of women meeting (I think the writer was referring to Bristol) "directly contributes" to a "huge escalation" in crime against trans people.

There has been no such escalation. Even if that part were true, the notion that small groups of women meeting is what is causing it is utterly ludicrous.

Once I researched the concept of thought terminating cliches I began to recognize them and the way they are used. Fascinating stuff, language.

Radical Feminists excluded all males from Feminism.
1, We learned early on that they suck up all the time and attention.
You can see this on threads here and any Feminist conference.
2, Are sometimes there for nefarious purposes, the Hugos and Kyles.
3, Usually run to the head of the parade and assert their right to leadership.

I am impressed at the number of things that transgender advocates and MRAs now claim that Radical Feminists have the power to exclude their people from. All evidence to the contrary.

"exterminatory" rather than "exclusionary"
I have seen it used that way by some TRAs Eresh. Going back many years, not long after it was initially created in fact.

I’d say the problem with the Catholicism analogy is that religious faith is in something external, whether that’s god or the specific ideas that separate one faith from another, but faith in gender identity is faith in an idea about yourself. I can see how that would translate to needing others to ‘believe’ in it too.

It’s the fundamental conflict between gender critical feminists and the core belief in gender which is necessary for transgender ideology. For those who believe, gender=soul=self, if you say gender doesn’t exist, the whole thing falls down, no gender=no soul=no self. I.e. denying their existence.

Transgender can’t just be dysphoria, it can’t be a mental disorder, it definitely can’t be a fetish, to say any of that denies their true ‘self’, their soul...

That’s why it’s a cult.

If the definition of “trans person” is “person who is a woman/man by virtue of feeling/saying that they are a woman/man” (substitute non-binary etc as applicable) then many people deny such people exist.

You have to be able to divorce existence from physical reality - it’s tricky.

It is a guilt trip, wishing to make everyone else centre a misogynistic dogma. The same kind of emotional manipulation that I hated as a child.. ‘quick! clap your hands to show you believe or Tinkerbell will DIE’.

By its own ‘logic’ this manipulative ‘argument’ would be equally applicable by women and transsexuals back to TRAs. We don’t use it because we know how pathetic it is. Most people prefer to use facts or political arguments to win their arguments and not to seek to just force our beliefs on others by manipulation, ostracism and silencing.

I would not have clapped for that horrid Tinkerbell.
I used to feel kinda bad about it when I was little.

They used to want us to put our fists in the air too. I wouln't do that either. I am a member in good standing of the recalcitrancy.

Me too, Bewilderness. My mum used to joke that the first word I learned wasn't "mummy" or "teddy" or whatever, it was "no".

You cant make people see you a certain way just because you feel like it. It's like all those people on X factor who identify as amazing undiscovered talent despite being tone deaf, how they identify is irrelevant, the judges are going to say no.

I don't think the concept of authentic self is always helpful and can sometimes be harmful.

If you don't view someone in exactly the way they want you to view them, then you think they don't exist.

Bullshit. So, if I want people to view me as a victoria secret model and they don't.......that means I don't exist?

Ach - I get what they mean by the phrase. It doesn't stand up to close scrutiny but I am denying that gender exists as a thing which if your whole identity is feeling a different gender it must feel like people are saying you don't 'exist' as evidence.

I certainly don't deny the existence of trans people or wish them any harm. I doubt that anyone on these boards does. I certainly don't share the ideology that there is some magical female essence that I share with Malala, Linda Bellos and Caitlyn Jenner. But my DS, who is very woke, tells me that by insisting that people can't biologically change sex and that bepenised people should be excluded from intimate female-only spaces, I am providing oxygen to other people who really do hate trans people and will harm them. A bit like how laughing at rape jokes contributes to rape culture.

Easy for him to say as a member of the sex whose spaces are still being treated with respect.

Easy for him to say as a member of the sex whose spaces are still being treated with respect.
Quite. An awful lot of men, even those who don't identify as women,
are instructing us on how to do feminsim

If you don't view someone in exactly the way they want you to view them, then you think they don't exist.

Poe's law.

Some people believe they remember past lives. I don't believe this at all, I'm sure there is a more likely explanation than reincarnation. I'm not denying these people exist, or denying that they have these memories. I'm simply disagreeing with the explanation they give for these memories.

Similarly, some people believe they are women trapped in male bodies. I don't believe this, I'm sure there is a more likely explanation than the existence of a female soul or essence. I'm not denying these people exist, or denying their feelings. I simply don't agree with their explanation for these feelings.

When my son would put his hands over his eyes and announce we couldn't see him, we'd all play along - because he was 2, and 2 year olds are self-centred and don't understand that other people really exist outside of them (it's hard to put, but you know what I mean)

These people are adults though, and should have learned by now that everyone else is also a fully rounded being with their own thoughts, feelings and beliefs, and no amount of putting hands over eyes will make other people think they are invisible.

This has always seemed like the silliest accusation ever to me. How would it be possible to have an argument with someone who didn't exist? If we're arguing then clearly I'm aware that you exist, since I'm a bit old for imaginary friends.

Similarly, some people believe they are women trapped in male bodies. I don't believe this, I'm sure there is a more likely explanation than the existence of a female soul or essence. I'm not denying these people exist, or denying their feelings. I simply don't agree with their explanation for these feelings.

This. I do actually have some sympathy for people who believe things which are outside the limits of scientific knowledge. I do. It's fine for personal beliefs. It's when you start trying to impose your personal worldview, however rational to you, however much evidence you think you have in your personal life, onto others who do not believe, share your worldview or have a compelling reason to accept your second hand anecdotes, that there is a problem.

But my DS, who is very woke, tells me that by insisting that people can't biologically change sex and that bepenised people should be excluded from intimate female-only spaces, I am providing oxygen to other people who really do hate trans people and will harm them. A bit like how laughing at rape jokes contributes to rape culture.

Bluescreen i’m sure you’ve said all this.. But being ‘woke’ means you would recognise differences and vulnerability and critique the social structures that enforce power hierarchies.

So he could consider whether by him NOT pointing out facts, or ignoring lies, just so that he can kindly protect TRA people’s solipsism... (note: TRAs would not give a shit about ‘calling out’ HIS feelings if he dared to disagree with them) .. by not opposing this stuff he knows to be false, he is propping up;

-GNC kids being ‘affirmed’ into permanent surgical mutilation, unnecessary drugs, and probable infertility at an age when they are too young to understand what that means.

-He’s making feminists like you more vulnerable to harassment and attack by not standing with you.

-He’s denying your voice and experience as a woman, and that of thousands of other women who would agree with you, which is not OK.

-Not to mention the facts of what happens when self ID is brought in which impacts all women but particularly younger more vulnerable women with less resources to mitigate those impacts.. and children.

The eradication bit possibly goes back to Janice Raymond (her top point of being willfully misunderstood/misquoted:
janiceraymond.com/fictions-and-facts-about-the-transsexual-empire/
But her webpage makes clear these claims and blames go back quite a way.

It testifies to the strong religious nature of trans ideology. Two politicians disagreeing, two scientists, two philosophers, two historians etc. You don't get this hypberbolic ''you disagree with my views so you're denying my existence''. But it's very similar to the way some religious people respond to things like evolution.

There are some very conservative Christians who would say that if evolution is true than god couldn't possibly exist, their entire belief system is false and they've essentially been wasting their time. So you get this strong visceral push back against science. It's not an academic debate to them, it's much more than that, it's about their entire world view and reason for existence.