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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

A key recategorisation

20 replies

Terfulike · 17/06/2018 00:23

It has been brought to my attention by my daughter ( a psychology student) that the DSM has changed its definition of gender illness . I already knew this, but actually her telling me makes me think more deeply and urgently about the DSM definitions. They are internationally important: why we're they changed ?

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Terfulike · 17/06/2018 00:47

Hello people

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Terfulike · 17/06/2018 00:53

I'm going to keep it up here till key people engage

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buckeejit · 17/06/2018 00:54

It's late at night so not that's many folk about. I'm about to go to bed but could you explain a bit more please?

buckeejit · 17/06/2018 00:55

Who the fuck is the DSM?

Terfulike · 17/06/2018 00:59

Ok dsm is an extremely important document which directs diagnoses worldwide. It stands for diagnostic and statisticall manual of the American psychological association or some shch

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Terfulike · 17/06/2018 01:00

Ok it's late back on the case tomorrow

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JuzzaL · 17/06/2018 01:01

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LaSqrrl · 17/06/2018 01:03

I don't know, but they have been pushing to get it removed for some time. Makes a mockery out of their longer strategy, that it was a 'condition' (like disability) that 'they could not help'. Now they want to overturn the GRA, claim it isn't a medical condition, but get treated by the medical profession on their terms only. No other medical patients get that treatment.

Terfulike · 17/06/2018 01:04

Thank you so they changed their definition why and how that's my question is this its important

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LaSqrrl · 17/06/2018 01:05

Link to the DSM, but I have not read what is going on.

Terfulike · 17/06/2018 01:06

I am tired but will get back to this extremely important topic tomorrow!

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MrsTerryPratchett · 17/06/2018 01:06

TBF the DSM is widely used but also widely known to be a bit shit. They seem to change it constantly so anyone that uses it knows it will be different in 10 years.

Also, diagnosis is unreliable as well. When I was a psychology student a thousand years ago I was writing papers on racism and sexism in diagnosis and the misdiagnosis of pretty much everyone anyone not male, white and British/American.

buckeejit · 17/06/2018 01:08

Likewise as I am drunk! Goodnight & see you in the morning, I agree that's it's imperative to talk about these issues.

Waddlelikeapenguin · 17/06/2018 01:40

Also interested in this tomorrow. Smile

TransplantsArePlants · 17/06/2018 06:17

What MrsTerryPratchet said. AFAIK it's always received criticism for turning observable behaviours into a disorder without reference to social context or the etiology of a disorder

Clairetree1 · 17/06/2018 06:37

the DSM is a bit of a joke internationally, always making up conditions that nobody else in the world thinks are real.

I don't disrespect them myself, they come up with suggestions and classifications which might be helpful, although most are not, they are trying to do something almost impossible - classify and label every possible variation in human neurology.

SoaringSwallow · 17/06/2018 06:41

The DSM has got a history of not being the best and certainly for the symptoms of trauma in childhood there are some serious questions. However it's one of the two main diagnostic guidelines. It's extremely widely used and it's rarely questioned. It's the American Psychiatric Association (not psychological) that produces it. American doctors. Doctors working in a private system. Doctors who are not entirely independent of drug companies. I'm sure they're all very good and work within the regulations of their system, but it's important to understand what that system is.

SoaringSwallow · 17/06/2018 06:45

Bye I agree with Claire that it's almost impossible to do what the book sets out to. It also needs to be updated as neuroscience develops and more research comes to the fore. But understanding where it comes from also directs understanding of motivations that may be at play in revising it.

It's responsible (rightly in my opinion) for asexuality to be seen as a sexuality and not an illness, unless it's a side effect of something or unwelcome change from someone's normal.

Artemis7 · 17/06/2018 07:41

What has changed is the codes for diagnosis, which are set by the WHO in the book International Classification of Diseases and Related Health Problems. The WHO’s ICD codes are included in DSM, basically they enable someone to be covered by their health care provider. The WHO has de-classified gender issues as a mental illness, but they still have codes that cover it, so that these people can retain access to hormones, plastic surgeries, voice coaching etc, on the NHS (or other health schemes in their countries). So while many use the DSM to enable diagnosis the WHO’s ICD codes are used for medical purposes.

The ICD was due to be updated anyway (it is always updated after a certain amount of time), the specific changes in this area were brought in due to the influence and input from various groups, such as Global Action for Trans, International Campaign Stop Trans Pathologization, WPATH, and others. The main aims of these groups were for transvestic disorder to no longer be mentioned and no association of mental illness to be made, while still retaining access to various things on the NHS (or other health care providers in their various countries). The European Parliament also put pressure on the WHO to remove gender identity diagnoses. The WHO carried out a field trial of the proposed changes then implemented various changes. So I assume these changes to the ICD codes in the DSM are what you are referring to.

The changes to the codes in practice mean that people have access to NHS funds for hormones etc, without having to be classified as having an official mental illness and down play the role transvestic disorder can play in some men’s motivations. To my knowledge there is (as yet) no changes to the descriptive text in the DSM in this area, just the IDC diagnostic codes, which are used to collect data and so people can access to NHS resources. Of course if their is a limited number of options to classify someone, e.g. no code for transvestic disorder, then any individuals that would have been classified under that code previously, would then be classified under a different code. This allows the claim that ‘no man is classified as having transvestic disorder’ even though these men clearly exist. That is one of the major problems of the changes and why particular groups pushed for certain changes.

However, I agree with the other comments here, mental health criteria is political and always has been, these changes favour the same group that has always been favoured. There is a push to make all of men’s sexual behaviours more socially acceptable, and that is usually not a good thing for women in general, these changes do just that, by making any sexual motivations invisible.

SoaringSwallow · 17/06/2018 08:31

@Artemis7 brilliant explanations - thanks. And the point about sexual motivations is something I'd not considered (don't work in the area) and chilling.

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