Grandmothers the key to human evolutionary success

[stargirl1701]

Suzanne Zeedyk posted this today. I found it fascinating.

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2018/06/07/617097908/why-grandmothers-may-hold-the-key-to-human-evolution

That isn't really a new theory, I remember reading it thirty or forty years ago. The idea that hunters would be providing most of the food has also been disproved, they mostly go hunting for the jollies.

Yup this is a pretty well established theory. It’s a cool one :)

Women and children provide most of the calories as well in most hunter gatherer groups. The protein from hunting bigger game is a more minor aspect.

One theory I heard, which I love, is that the reason us older women get worse and worse at sleeping is that we would have been awake at night, watching the fire and keeping the place safe so the young could sleep and would have the energy to hunt and gather.

Yay, hats off to Grandmas/Grannie/Nanas everywhere

Yes I had heard this before

In the sense that older women had a large amount of knowledge and expertise as well

And that once they are free of looking after their own children they have the time to do more

Saying to DH it's all over the world the men do the showy, high profile , infrequent stuff, while women are quietly working in the background in the daily boring grind stuff and keeping it all going. In our society this comes to housework, feeding (cooking), caring for young and old. All still mostly done, invisibly, by women.

This is not new, one of the human "gifts" is that every child is raised by two generations not one, this idea has been around since at least for 50 years. The human life span compared to reproductive life span is longer than any other animal. The other two human "gifts" are the strongest fingers in the world, and the ability to run further than any other animal.

These three "gifts" are thought to be the reason we are the most successful species.

I don't actually think it is limited to grandmothers, though, I think it is grandfathers too.

Although of course all over the world grandmothers breast feed their grandchildren.

There’s a concept called alloparenting, should anyone fancy a little bit of googling - its the concept that a closely related family member even of they dont breed successfully, can pass on at least some of heir genes by increasing the success of closely related breeding pairs.

A good model is the Seychelles warbler- aunts often lend a hand (wing?) even if they don’t breed successfully themselves - because they share a proportion of the genes of their siblings offspring it benefits them as well.

There are some theories about this being the root of altruistic behaviour.

There is also a theory (although it is just that) that the siblings of gay males have higher reproductive success as well. So there is a reporoductive advantage to homosexuality somewhere.

Not opposable thumbs, intelligence, theory of mind and tool use?

Weird.

Having traveled all over the majority world, no, it's generally not GFs too. Whenever I'm puffing up some mountain in the middle of fuck all, I'm passed by an older women carrying 100 lbs of wood, coal, food and baby on her back, barely breathing and not sweating. The menfolk are either dead, or sitting around smoking, drinking, chatting and 'running' the place.

As the great MrTP said, “Studies have shown that an ant can carry one hundred times its own weight, but there is no known limit to the lifting power of the average tiny eighty-year-old Spanish peasant grandmother.”

@Bowlofbabelfish I find reciprocal altruism fascinating. Vampire bats sharing blood is my favourite former goth.

In this house, it's Grandma who does 95% of the caring, whilst DGdad waltzes in for half and hour or so's intense play and becomes the hero.

T'was ever thus....

Not opposable thumbs, intelligence, theory of mind and tool use?

no, not weird, not even that different to what you are saying. It is partly the opposable thumbs that give our fingers their strength, and wisdom does largely come from grandparents. The two generation raising idea is largely based on parents providing all material needs, and grandparents ( yes, including grandfathers) providing emotional needs and education.

Ha! Yes Mrs. TP. I love that quote.

I was in Vietnam years back marvelling at women planting rice with kids strapped to their backs, carrying hods of bricks up ladders etc while the menfolk smoked locally produced heroin and did the square root of chuff all.

What’s that they say about hard work? Of hard work was proportional to riches, the average African Mum would be a millionaire ... the proportion of the actual agricultural work and productivity across the globe that’s done by women is astonishing. The world spins on our work. Mainly unpaid.

Wisdom might come from people but intelligence comes from a brain with unusual size for our bodies and crenelation and a large and complex prefrontal cortex.

All these things feed back at one another too - complex movements coordinated with hand and eye feed the growth of the brain. Extended youth feeds growth of brain. Endurance hunting requires cooperation, communication, etc - feeds back to brain. Complex social structures - feeds back to brain

They’re all in a way manifestations of the same set of feedback loops.

exactly, and the hands, and running ability and life span of grandparents all predate the brain size.

As a grandmother I totally agree with this, whether it’s true or otherwise.

That article didn't mention the depth and breadth of the knowledge those women need to perform the task.
They have to know which plants are edible, which parts of those plants, how to identify them, how to weed out similar, non edible plants, how to harvest them and leave enough for next year, and how to prepare them.
They need to know their own territory like the back of their hand as well.

though, I think it is grandfathers too
Hardly.

@MrsTerryPratchett

Have you read The Science of The Discworld books where they go on about 'extelligence' and its role in relation to intelligence? Really interesting stuff.

I'm not surprised that this article has raised concerns of watm.

Even if there is no mention of grandfathers doing this, and the whole thing is about mothers and grandmothers, it's important to imagine/ guess that it must mean grandfathers too, because equality. And men need to be referenced in any article about women doing stuff, just you take the spotlight off them a bit.

This is very old ideas and research though, and it has always encompassed grandfathers as well as grandmothers, even though this article may not refer to them

Seems to me the article is saying that women evolved to live long beyond reproductive years because they are useful to society and men coat tailed on the back of it so grandma had someone to shag?