Boys prioritised over girls - again

[Lysistrataknowsherstuff]

I've seen fears expressed here before that new trans policies in schools will marginalise religious girls, and this blog seems to confirm this - girls will be removed from PE with the new rules in Glamorgan.

The fourth witness, a councillor, appears to put it best - the feelings of the boys who self identify as girls will be prioritised over the safety of the girls. It's the girls who will be asked to leave if they object to this new policy.

penarthnews.wordpress.com/2018/06/14/muslim-parents-and-others-object-to-vale-councils-controversial-transgender-toolkit/

This is all such nonsense. People shouldn't be made to change with anyone else they feel uncomfortable with. This includes single gender group changing rooms. This isn't prioritising boys over girls.. really sexist title. It's prioritising one over the many.

I like the way he puts that: "potential competing equality strands"

Cllr Sivagnanam is a woman.

Oh and the thread title is appalling- a father of a boy spoke up about his concerns about his son. Other parents raised concerns about their children.

The transmen/boys have been given a free pass so far in all of this; they can use their biological female pass as and when it suits them.

I'd be interested to know the % of self-ID'd transmen/boys who actually use male facilities.

You're right timo; in practice though, it seems that transgirls are more likely to want to use the girls' facilities than transboys are to want to use the boys'.

There's one thing which is worse than oppressing a minority, and that's oppressing a majority.

Also doesn't Stephen Doughty think any opposition to the transagenda is hate?

I think we need to get back to reality and trans kids expectation in regards to what transitioning means in real terms, not rainbow fairy unicorn world.

If you feel your in the wrong body and want to change to the other gender, you can do so by changing your hair and clothes, the things you do and the way you act. But you will still be the biological sex you were born underneath and so you will still have to use the changing room, toilets that belong to your biological sex, and you'll still compete in sport with your biological sex. You can't join girl guides or other girl only organisation if your biologically a boy. If you want to change on your own, the school can accommodate that, if you don't want to do sport fine. And when your older you can have surgery to change your outer sex organs, but as your biological sex remains the same there will be some restrictions when it comes to sex segregation.

Telling kids they can change their hair and like magic they're the opposite sex is causing issues, because those kids grow up and then can't understand why there are limits on them, as they are not actually the opposite sex.

I'm going to send this Glamorgan article to my county councillor with responsibility for education, copying in my MP and local councillors as well. I've been pondering over this for some time as it's all too easy to be dismissed as a ranting transphobe if you try to explain it yourself. But the case against and concerns of parents are clearly set out in that article.

All I need to ask is for a reassurance that such proposals are not in the pipeline here. Nothing bigoted, ranting or controversial about that.

That’s two reasonable Labour voices in the press in two days. Here and over the Cancer research dropping of the word woman.

‘Impact assessment’ is what we need for everything. Absolutely everything.

Timelady can you email? The meeting is tomorrow

It's on Monday not Sunday that's my mistake

@Pratchet

I've sent this to my own county councillor for schools.

Dear < >

I’m writing to you to ask for clarification of the schools policy re. dealing with children who perceive themselves to be of a gender which is not that of their biological sex.

It appears that the Vale of Glamorgan council is about to adopt a policy which many of the parents disagree with, as outlined in this article:

penarthnews.wordpress.com/2018/06/14/muslim-parents-and-others-object-to-vale-councils-controversial-transgender-toolkit/

I would like your reassurance that the young people in will continue to enjoy single-sex spaces in schools and council facilities, such as changing rooms, showers and toilets, as well as single-sex sporting opportunities. By single-sex, I mean of the same biological sex, as provided for in the Equal Opportunities Act 2010, as a protected characteristic. Whilst I have every sympathy for any transitioning child, and would wish to see their needs sensitively catered for, it is important that their peers’ privacy and dignity is respected too.

I can find nothing relating to this on the website.

Thank you for your time

“Has there been an equality impact assessment carried out in this scenario which takes into account the potential competing equality strands and protected characteristics, in this case sex and self-identifying transgender?”

Nailed it councillor.... This is going to be my go-to question from now on: so succinct, so clear.

Wondering if Glamorgan realise the eyes of the world are on it on Monday?

Brilliant brilliant brilliant
Basically I bet these councillors WANT to say something. But if they just say 'I think this..' they're in much more danger of looking out of touch, and probably wouldn't be able to defend themselves. So you are giving your councillors the excuse needed to raise it, to object, with simple points that are easy to explain and defend. I'm sure your letter will be received with relief.

My CC is Conservative controlled, so I'm hopeful of a favourable response - I doubt if many in the party, especially lower down the food chain, share Maria Miller's views on this.

I see what you mean about providing an opportunity to raise the question "from a constituent". Interesting thought....

“Has there been an equality impact assessment carried out in this scenario which takes into account the potential competing equality strands and protected characteristics, in this case sex and self-identifying transgender?”

Indeed. I wish more people would ask this question. Its extremely important.

I loathed taking a shower at school. I'm an only child so was used to privacy, and even stripping off in front of my friends was excruciatingly embarrassing; fifty years on, I can still recall the feeling. The thought that I might have had to do that with a transgender boy in the changing room too doesn't bear thinking about. Parents up and down the country would be aghast at this if they were aware.

We need to oppose this for my granddaughter and your daughters and granddaughters too.

'The letter goes on to say “the Toolkit offers several scenarios where a male bodied pupil identifying as a girl wishes to use a female only space. In each scenario, the burden of responsibility is placed on the girl or her parent to raise concerns. Staff are also instructed to “focus on the `problem’ being the person who raises the concern, and not the trans individual”. Even an assertive, confident girl might well find it difficult to speak up about her right to boundaries in those circumstances — let alone a shy or anxious girl.”

I wonder when girls are going feel forced to walk out wholesale from PE and other lessons?

I wonder if these fucking idiots who promote this shit would like to shower and change along-side members of the opposite sex.

This was raised with Stella Creasy though. Ages ago. She didn’t care that teen girls were forced to shower with a male bodied person (who was allegedly masturbating). She suggested the issue could be fixed by supporting the traumatized girls with therapy or some such bollocksery. The problem was with the girls, not the boy in the girls shower. I think she begrudgingly admitted that wanking was a bit off, but the solution was to tell him not to wank in the girls shower, not to stop him using it.

They are using one protected characteristic to discriminate against other protected characteristics.
Creating a class of people that take priority over all others.
Writing the law so that transgender could use whichever changing room they choose is a violation of the rights of others.

@Disco2018

'I think we need to get back to reality and trans kids expectation in regards to what transitioning means in real terms...'

'Telling kids they can change their hair and like magic they're the opposite sex is causing issues, because those kids grow up and then can't understand why there are limits on them, as they are not actually the opposite sex.'

I think this is one angle to the situation not covered often by either 'side'. The 'pro-trans' lobby want to make everyone think trans kids/adults are the sex they present as; and women and, increasingly now, men too are naturally worried about the erosion of women's rights.

But what about the rights of trans children not to fast-tracked through this whole 'issue'? Yes, I know lots of people, including lots of women and specifically feminists are talking about it on places like 4th wave now but does not seem to get as much media attention.

If a boy says he wants to be a girl/is really a girl, etc, and ends up in Girl Guides, in the girls' changing room at the gym, in the Female loos at school, on the girls' team for sports, how difficult is it going to be for him to admit that actually, that was a phase and now he is perfectly happy as a boy?

Or that he is not perfectly happy but actually is a gender non-conforming boy or a gay boy.

And likewise for a girl.

Separate changing spaces, unisex toilets alongside the female and male ones, and unisex uniforms etc mean kids don't get boxed in.

@TimeLady would you mind if I used the bulk of your text and added some of my own to write to my own MP (who is utter shit) and bring this up with him, please?

Yy Disco2018

“I think we need to get back to reality and trans kids expectation in regards to what transitioning means in real terms, not rainbow fairy unicorn world.

If you feel your in the wrong body and want to change to the other gender, you can do so by changing your hair and clothes, the things you do and the way you act. But you will still be the biological sex you were born underneath and so you will still have to use the changing room, toilets that belong to your biological sex, and you'll still compete in sport with your biological sex. You can't join girl guides or other girl only organisation if your biologically a boy. If you want to change on your own, the school can accommodate that, if you don't want to do sport fine. And when your older you can have surgery to change your outer sex organs, but as your biological sex remains the same there will be some restrictions when it comes to sex segregation.”

^^ This.

@TimeLady would you mind if I used the bulk of your text and added some of my own to write to my own MP (who is utter shit) and bring this up with him, please?

Not at all. The Vale of Glamorgan proposals seem an ideal opportunity to open up a discussion, without coming across as a bigot.

Each County Council has a councillor with a special responsibility for schools and young people. Their contact details should be on the CC website. We should contact them all about this and seek reassurance. If they get more than one person contacting them about it, so much the better. I couldn't find any reference to sport guidelines ( at school county level, for instance) on my CC website, so depending on the response I get, that will be my next task.

I've also shared that article with my daughter, who I hope will discuss it with her friends.

Placemarking

So councillor Sivagnanam works for Stephen Doughty MP?

This Stephen Doughty MP: blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/05/why-are-some-mps-trying-to-shut-down-the-transgender-debate/

They were meeting today? So what has happened? No one on the spot???