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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Is transvestism a sexuality?

9 replies

Southfields · 15/06/2018 12:24

Grayson Perry is saying this:

"People say if you’re trying to access some kind of feminine, emotional experience, dressing up is a rather crude way of going about it," he told The Guardian. "And I always go, yeah, but you don’t decide to be a transvestite when you’re a sophisticated adult – you’re a child. Our sexuality is formed in the Petri dish of our childhood."

So he is saying that cross-dressing is a sexuality, not a gender identity.

I am confused!

OP posts:
JuzzaL · 15/06/2018 12:28

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Opheliah · 15/06/2018 12:30

Well only insofar as it's a paraphilia which could be described as a sexuality but not a sexual orientation.

Podophiles (foot fetishists) probably begin their journey at childhood much as autogynephiles (cross dressers / transvestites) do too.

Neither are sexual orientations like being homosexual or het but both could be described as a sexuality. If you sexualise shoes the shoe in your mind has a sexuality.

Opheliah · 15/06/2018 12:32

Sorry your question relates to gender identity.

Yes looks like he is admitting it's a sexuality! Not gender identity but GP is open about his paraphilia.

Unfortunately the term "transvestite" has been erased by gender ideologists for being offensive so we have to call these people women now.

Opheliah · 15/06/2018 12:34

More people need to verify open about this very common paraphilia (cross dressing). Not with criticism for it, no one should be shamed for a paraphilia but just be open that it's different to having gender dysphoria.

Opheliah · 15/06/2018 12:34

*be open

BettyDuMonde · 15/06/2018 12:36

I think he’s saying that ‘sexuality’ (umbrella term) includes sexual preference and sexual fetishes (not just sexual orientation, ie hetero/homo/bi) and while I haven’t thought about it in an in-depth way, I think I can agree that the pathways that lead to preferences and fetishes begin way before we are aware that preference and fetish exist.

I have encountered various male people who viewed cross dressing as a preferred sexual practice and I think for many of them, the desire to cross dress does sit far better when categorised as a sexual behaviour than as a gender identity.

For instance, there are lots of men who like to wear women’s underwear, but they do not see this as being part of an inner female identity.

Many years ago I spent a couple of years working as a telephone sex chat line operator (from a call centre!) and this was a frequently occurring subject. Many of them enjoyed the idea of being caught and then either punished or encouraged by the (always female) catcher.

Kyanite · 15/06/2018 12:36

It may all come childhood. Cross dressing is about sex, not identity. There's a difference between autogynephilia (aroused by the idea of themselves being the opposite sex) and gender dysphoria.

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 15/06/2018 12:58

Kyanite, but the definition of transvestism, AGP and gender dysphoria kinda overlap in the DSM definitions, which I can't currently cut n paste. Males with one often have another.

SomeDyke · 15/06/2018 13:20

I find that quote by GP very honest and illuminating.

What I always find intriguing is thinking about why autoandrophilia (the female equivalent of autogynephilia), is so much rarer. Perhaps for the very simple reason that male attire is so often the norm, just seen as 'clothing', simple, practical, fit for purpose, just clothing, that keeps the rain off your head and stops your bum getting cold.
Whereas female clothing, from Racquels fur bikini, to dresses made of meat, is a whole other thing, from the different fabrics, to the type of garment, to the cut of the garment, the colours, the decorations, the fact that female clothing includes specific garments not available to males and not just for reasons of biology (i.e. people without boobs don't need a bra, and people without balls don't need a jockstrap -- unless you are packing and have a silicone removable one!)..................

Historically, women who did cross-dress, either did if for purely practical reasons (like passing as male meant you could be an army surgeon because women were not allowed to be doctors), required for the job (think land girls during WWII), but rarely for the sexual stimulation of the clothing itself AFAIK. For me in particular, being butch was more about rejecting femininity and the passivity and lower status associated with it, not for the sexual thrill of the clothing itself. Also, as a lesbian thing, looking good in non-feminine clothing is acceptable and seen as attractive.

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