violence against women on TV

[shiklah]

I have been watching a few of the 'boxset' TV shows - they are really well reviewed, well made and described as 'feminist' - Handmaid's Tale and Westworld.

What are your thoughts regarding the violence against women in these shows? I find the repeated scenes of (usually very beautiful) women being raped, beaten and stabbed unwatchable.

Maybe it is just my age, my annoyance at the lack of progress of women' rights etc. Has anyone been thinking the same? Am I out on a limb here?

Thanks

I agree with you. Just violence on tv in general is too much these days, but there seems to be a really nasty focus on women.

I know load of people enjoy things like game of thrones. I can’t watch that sort of thing at all. I think it’s likely to desensitise people and it really worries me.

I cant watch GOT, or Tits and Dragons as it's called in these parts, at all.

There seem to be endless choking scenes in particular. I wonder if its all just heightened in my head due to my mindset.

I'm so so relieved I am not the only woman who has noticed this.

In what way did you find WW sexist @VaggieMight

In 2008 my mum and I watched the back to back to back episodes of Law & Order SVU.
We started counting how many of the perps were women or had women directing the perps. Had I not known what the actual crime rates are between men and women I would have come away thinking that women committed more sex crimes than men did.

I recently tried to watch Altered Carbon on Netflix and had to switch off because I have been out of patience with the rape torture and abuse of women presented as men's idea of entertainment for a thousand years.

How can anyone find WW sexist? The two leading characters are female. They're strong, independent women. Both with very different driving forces. both have developed excellently....

I have enjoyed the plot of WW as well. The violence has been very graphic much of which could be argued to be essential to the plot but the women do seem to die in much more graphic detail.

Agreed. A lot of the violence seems stylized and intended for titillation, especially in fantasy / dystopia like GoT or Handmaids Tale. Some violence is necessary to show the brutality of a regime or to raise the stakes for a character e.g. when Offred finds out that one of the Handmaids has had her clitoris removed in punishment for being a ‘gender traitor’ but there are entire scenes that seem to be willfully shot as sadistic fantasy. It annoys me. If it were happening with both male and female characters it would be one thing but it is almost always violence against women that is filmed in this lingering way.

Have you seen season 2? Because whilst that is exactly how it started, indeed it was the nature of the theme park....the current plot is fighting back because of this....

Most violence and nudity is gratuitous. Even if necessary to the plot they can be implied or snap shots shown.

At the end of the last season GOT was fairly female dominated.

Cersei is queen, Danaerys is the other queen with her army and dragons, Sansa is lady of Winterfell, Arya is a smart arse skilled assassin etc. Most of the plot involved around these women,their flaws their strengths, their beliefs and getting things done. Most of the "main" men are either dead or maimed.The ones that seem to have been left are the "outcasts" - imp,bastards,wildlings etc. And they are more in an advisory role or simple tools in the main fight.

It took a long time to get there though and no idea how it will develop in the next season.

willfully shot as sadistic fantasy

I agree. I don't think it's so much plot lines and/or characterisation: it's the direction and the camera work.

I think the Handmaid's Tale is different.

I had looked forward to TGWTDT as it was ‘feminist’ then there was a horrible rape in it.

I don’t want to watch rape as entertainment.

It shouldn’t be banned completely but it shouldn’t be universal either.

And crimes should be representative eg mostly male killers/ rapists.

I completely agree. I can't watch lots of violence at all.

Just because a programme has strong female characters it can still be misogynistic.

Taking delight in the death of women is pretty misogynistic, regardless of whether the main character if male or female.

I'm not sure graphic violence is ever justified in a film, you can say it is integral to the plot but the ancient Greeks had very gruesome plot lines but the violence took place off stage, you didn't need to see it.

"Kelsoooo 'How can anyone find WW sexist? The two leading characters are female. They're strong, independent women.'

To be honest so was Thatcher, so is May, but doesn't mean the 'machinery' they are part of cannot be hugely sexist.

I watch The 100. It is (for me) very violent but the main characters are mostly women. The nature of the violence is not sexualised and men are as likely to be victims as women.

Has anyone seen it and can compare it to other programmes. It's sci fi and so a bit of a niche market!

I get so bored of the dead woman on a slab = completely naked; dead man on a slab = modesty cloth over genitals or camera conveniently shots from different angles to avoid full frontal

I've started various Netflix series recently and given up on them because of stuff like this. Or sex scenes where she is completely naked but he has a top on. Or even scenes where the viewer doesn't see anything but the actors involved were clearly naked when it was filmed and it's not exactly integral to the plot. (The last point seems even more relevant in post-Weinstein times)

I have started the 100 and enjoyed the first episode - DS wants to watch it with me, though, so I haven't seen any more of it yet

Just because a programme has strong female characters it can still be misogynistic

Completely agree! The Fall was bad at this - great, strong female lead but the victims were pretty young women who died in violent ways

I think my dd and your ds are the same age@OlennasWimple My dd has started watching The 100 with me, but she has a much stronger stomach than I so is not bothered by the violence!

Did you start at the beginning or just this series?

Yes, I think they are Italian. I started at the very beginning. DS tells me that lots of his friends at school watch it (but then they also stay up to 10pm every night and have their own iPhones too, apparently... )

I watched Falling Down with DH and DS last night - an old film we both enjoyed the first time round.
When DS asked what it was about I replied
"An unhinged man is trying to visit his wife and daughter on her birthday and goes crazy and starts attacking people"
DH looked completely confused and said "I thought he was just really frustrated and trying to get home for his daughters party because he's a good dad?"
His memory isn't the greatest but I was amazed. During the film there were a few times when DS looked at me, shocked, and said 'Why are they portraying him so sympathetically"

It was really interesting to see their reactions, DH to what I had said and DS to the film.

I dislike the run of the mill murder/detective shows with all the female victims, but I'm not so sure about GoT.
The most horrific death in the entire series (for me) is the very graphic Prince Oberyn and there are many many other gruesome, lingering male deaths. Theon Greyjoy gets tortured particularly badly.
However, there are a lot of casual rape scenes, with no empathy for the victim.
As for The 100 - I don't remember it being that gruesome. There's pretty good gender equality, with several good female tribe leaders (and maybe a couple of not so good ones), intelligent female engineer/all round clever person, warriors, etc. It's a bit teenage fluffy, but better female/male balance than many shows.

I couldn’t watch the Handmaid’s Tale as I found it too harrowing but I’ve no doubt it glorifies violence against women. I have read the book so there’s plenty of stuff that can be gratuitously pictured.

In defence of Westworld, which I think is brilliant, is that it started off as cliche and changed once the hosts started to see. The two female leads are interesting and complex characters, which I find is really rare in sci fi. There’s plenty of men being used for sex and being horribly murdered by humans so the difference is not as stark as most entertainment. I’ve had to stop reading the reddit for it though as too many men seem incapable of following a story with main female characters that aren’t the usual stereotypes, and they’re getting angry about it!

With GoT it has improved with regards sexism and violence against women since they got past the books imho.

Altered Carbon was a funny one. I really liked the main character so I stuck with it, but the female characters were shocking and the idea that we’d have this amazing tech to bring people back from the dead and people would use this to murder sex workers for fun is so depressing.