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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Conversion therapy

23 replies

ChangeOfName123 · 10/06/2018 17:37

Another trans thread obvs. Sorry.

Regular poster NC'd. I have been thinking about what some people have said in the teacher thread and it got me thinking about Section 28, and telling gay people they were wrong about their sexuality, and I came to this fictional comparison:

Alex is a gay female born in 1950.
Sam is a gay female born in 2000.

Alex is pressured by society into thinking her identity as a gay female is wrong. Alex feels depressed, possibly suicidal.
Sam is also pressured by society into thinking her identity is wrong. Sam feels depressed, possibly suicidal.

Alex opts for/is pushed into 'gay conversion therapy'
Sam opts for/is pushed into a 'sex change'.

Alex undergoes dubious/painful/damaging/harmful procedures. So does Sam.

Alex now presents as a heterosexual woman.
Sam presents as a heterosexual male.

But Alex can marry a man, and have PIV sex, and make babies, but deep down is still a gay woman.
Sam can wear trousers and has a penis, of sorts, and grow stubble and has male on their passport, but genetically is still a woman.

Is a lot of this trans stuff a way of telling people they are Wrong? When we ought to be saying, Alex shag who you want, Sam wear trousers.and play football and cut all your hair off, you're honestly fine as you are?

OP posts:
thebewilderness · 10/06/2018 19:32

Conversion or transition? What's in a name?

Mxyzptlk · 10/06/2018 19:39
Sad And the kids who aren't 'typical' boy or girl who now want 'medicine and surgery'. Did they come up with that idea all on their own? Of course not.
GibbertyFlibbert · 10/06/2018 19:43

Seriously, you think it is acceptable to equate a "sex change" with conversion therapy?

AnotherQuoll · 10/06/2018 19:50

Yes.

SupermatchGame · 10/06/2018 20:06

And many of those who did live as lesbians still go on to become men. Conversion therapy and transgender treatment are not the same thing at all.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=NN4a0O7jGHc
www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJ9K3gldMnI
www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdIqt1-x2w8
www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7s0WgwCYiQ
www.youtube.com/watch?v=folkFya_2d8
www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgRVbmYcv3o

thebewilderness · 10/06/2018 20:12

The commitment to transitioning away the Gays & Lesbians is clear to anyone who spends five minutes reading transgender advocacy organizations information.

SupermatchGame · 10/06/2018 20:22

Deja vu. They used to say the same about homosexual advocacy and turning people gay.

Macareaux · 10/06/2018 20:29

It is absolutely the case that transing kids is conversion therapy.

When it comes to middle aged men transitioning then that's usually a sexual fetish.

Original poster
ChangeOfName123 · 10/06/2018 20:36

See, I feel that the trans advocacy has more in common with fundamentalist religious groups than the gay rights movement, and my feelings about 'trans rights' and 'religious rights' are fairly similar.

OP posts:
ErrolTheDragon · 10/06/2018 20:45

Seriously, you think it is acceptable to equate a "sex change" with conversion therapy?

Unfortunately it seems to be exactly that in Iran.

thebewilderness · 10/06/2018 20:53

Men spent over five hundred years teaching other men that women were sub human animals that men planted their human seeds in.

Now they are claiimng that we are a costume they like to wear from time to time and any child who deviates from their society's gender roles is at risk of being homosexual and must be put on the path to conformity through transition at the earliest possible age.

OldCrone · 10/06/2018 20:54

'A lot of gay men are gay men as a consolation prize, because they couldn't be women' according to Juno Dawson

vickyjgo · 10/06/2018 20:57

:-( yes "another" trans thread.... comparing transition to conversion therapy.. when in fact the very opposite of transition is conversion therapy... transgender people do exist and some people are transgender.. to force a child to deny that they are transgender can only be done using conversion therapy of the kind advocated by those peddling Section 28 "you are not gay just confused" "you are not trans you are just confused" The watch and wait process adopted by the NHS supports the mental health of the child. The watch and wait approach is cautious in the extreme.

UpstartCrow · 10/06/2018 21:09

In Iran gay people are given the 'choice' to transition or the death penalty. And many people, particularly religious fundamentalists in the US, seem happier about letting their children transition than having a gay child.

SupermatchGame · 10/06/2018 21:09

Oh well if it's happening in Iran it must be happening everywhere then.

Rufustheyawningreindeer · 10/06/2018 21:24

lot of gay men are gay men as a consolation prize, because they couldn't be women

Thats just dreadful

And thats quite obviously what's happening in iran, gay men having to be 'women' cos its that or death

Starkstaring · 10/06/2018 21:36

Absolutely OP. A whole generation of kids who don't fit stereotypes and wanting to escape are being medically altered to conform ("life saving" treatment) . And conveniently sterilised in the process.

It is the worst kind of conversion therapy.

flowersonthepiano · 10/06/2018 22:25

I find this whole thing concerning in the extreme. While I don't doubt that there are trans kids who will go on to be transsexual, isn't it the case that most (about 80% of) kids who are gender non-conforming would be better off if they don't go down that route?

I also really don't understand the lobby to affirm young children as being the opposite sex. Surely it would be better to separate sex and gender and let everyone be as masculine or feminine as they choose to be?

IMO physical sex change should be a last resort for the most extreme cases of dysphoria, which are very rare, and only for adults. I am generally anti cosmetic surgery anyway, and I find the current move towards normalisation of body modifaction of all sorts (not just SRS) extremely disturbing.

Mxyzptlk · 10/06/2018 23:49

And many of those who did live as lesbians still go on to become men.

That's fine if it's their own free choice.

thebewilderness · 11/06/2018 00:08

I suppose it depends on how you define the word "many".

mancheeze · 11/06/2018 06:23

Seriously, you think it is acceptable to equate a "sex change" with conversion therapy?

Yes. As many posters here pointed out, islamic fundamentalists see it and use it to convert gays and lesbians.

Nobody gets a sex change, either. They get a mutilation of a healthy body. Men don't get a vagina. Women don't get a penis.

I encourage everyone to watch this doc about a gay man in Canada who looks like got addicted to the idea of transition. He wanted to get his RIBS removed.

Starkstaring · 11/06/2018 06:51

Separating gender from biological sex must be a more healthy way forward. Which means a sea change in the way feminine men and masculine women are treated (ditto boys and girls). Unfortunately we are a long way off that, especially as the "born in the wrong body" theory seems to have taken the place of accepting and celebrating difference.

lovetheway · 11/06/2018 07:31

With its talk of 'feminine boys' and masculine girls - it absolutely is conversion therapy. Although even traditional conversion therapy didn't demand you cut off your penis, or mutilate your breasts. Or dose yourself with high doses of dodgy hormones.

Thank god we live in such 'woke' times Hmm Angry

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