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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Documentary on Germaine Greer BBC2 9pm

44 replies

hungryhippie · 09/06/2018 14:28

I have searched but cannot see a previous post about this
www.radiotimes.com/news/2018-06-09/germaine-bloody-greer-bbc2-tv-time-date-preview/

OP posts:
2rebecca · 09/06/2018 23:11

If GG did HRT too I don't feel so much of a feminist failure re medicating away my menopause

speakingwoman · 09/06/2018 23:12

:)

SupermatchGame · 10/06/2018 01:21

I really enjoyed that, but was in tears at the end. I think that's more about age though and seeing this strong vibrant woman coming to terms with ageing and moving to somewhere smaller. Having to give up that magnificent house and grounds and geese. Partly selfish pity I think as it highlights my own mortality (me me me) and my parents, but also that sadness is also about her and how we are all at the mercy of time.

She is quite enigmatic really. She articulates this vision of what being a woman shouldn't be but could be, but not really being clear what it is. The answer for her was a life that most women probably wouldn't want. Most women do want children and want more from men than just sex. I guess everyone will take bits from it that they want and leave the bits they don't. This is just my perception but she projects a heterosexual version of (radical) feminism that reaches a similar destination in some ways to lesbian separatist radical feminism yet at the same time different to the common ground of most heterosexual women's lives.

She's clear about not 'capitulating to the male' but never quite describes what this new life could look like that women can be 'architects' of. For her is it the life she has ended up living? I realised during this that maybe she resists being specific because it is for individuals to define that 'new life' for themselves of course.

Interesting when she describes relationships between men and women as 'picking at a wound'. She also says women should 'feel less'. If only it were as easy as that. Kind of a similarity here to calls to resist female socialisation (being nice to people so you don't upset them) but I don't think that was all she was getting at. She almost seemed to pity women for 'feeling' too much. She denounces any sort of sisterhood which highlights that difference and she clearly doesn't have any time for other feminists. It felt like she enjoys that fact that she offends feminists. I think a lot of what she says and writes is sincere but she has also made a living out of being deliberately provocative. She is quite the PR guru as well as an original thinker and intellectual.

I've planted violets (from the wild) in my own garden before so was really feeling her violet enthusiasm. I was also transfixed by her facial expressions, tone of voice and use of language. I guess that's part of what is meant by her 'charisma'. I've never read the female eunuch but that has really made me want to.

drearydeardre · 10/06/2018 06:49

I felt she was outstanding back in the day - I am old enough to remember her then. And she is right about the current 'feminist movement' concentrating on the wrong things.

NotAnotherJaffaCake · 10/06/2018 08:38

I thought it was (and she) was absolutely fucking AWESOME.

I think her key point is that a lot of feminism is still about women being defined by men. And the thing I feel there is missing in modern debate (not just feminism) is the academic rigour she brings to arguments. She is far and away the intellectual superior of most of the people attempting to debate with her.

Macareaux · 10/06/2018 08:46

Well that was fab. I can help feeling that if I'd read the female eunuch forty years ago I might not have wasted so much of my life on useless men.

placemats · 10/06/2018 09:09

^^ This!

I enjoyed the programme, have just re watched it. It was lovely to see so much support for Greer from the women interviewed and to get an historical sense of perspective as to why The Female Eunuch emerged as the iconoclastic best seller.

Greer is awesome.

TERFragetteCity · 10/06/2018 09:19

If GG did HRT too I don't feel so much of a feminist failure re medicating away my menopause

Why would you feel a feminist failure medicating away the menopause? HRT saves lives. I was on my knees [literally] to get through the day in my mid 40s, only saved by HRT. Women need their hormones to stay strong.

Mrscaindingle · 10/06/2018 09:37

I loved this and have now ordered The Female Eunuch which I am embarrassed to admit I haven't read.

And I really don't understand why using HRT makes you a feminist failure or any kind of failure.

GraceMarks · 10/06/2018 09:53

It filled me with pure joy to see her take down Norman Mailer in that Town Hall debate. All he was able to offer in response was an entirely typical threat to get his dick out - so much for being an intellectual heavyweight. The men who interviewed her in the 70s really had no idea how to approach her, did they? She wouldn't defer to them and giggle and flirt, and it clearly messed with their brains.

speakingwoman · 10/06/2018 10:08

I would like to study her way of talking and be a bit more Greer in real life.

Merchfach · 10/06/2018 10:18

Responding to Macareux above: I read The Female Eunch in 1980, as a teenager, and that was the end, really, of any expectation of a traditional relationship along the lines of my parents' generation. I am so grateful to her for opening my eyes and making me realise what was really going on. She changed my life. There was no going back after that.

She's the grit in the oyster, the person who'll ask the awkward question even if it makes people hate her. We need people like her, particularly women like her who don't need, or refuse to need, to be liked. It strikes me as a tough, lonely but extraordinary path she takes, and she's always been out there in front, cutting her way through for others to follow.

Tenko · 10/06/2018 11:14

Loved the program, I've always admired GG.
I read Female Eunuch when I was about 17 in the mid 70s. Definitely going to re-read it and see how my 60 year old self sees it.

LassWiADelicateAir · 10/06/2018 12:50

If GG did HRT too I don't feel so much of a feminist failure re medicating away my menopause

I was surprised she mentioned that. I have read posts on here that Greer has been scathing and unsympathetic about women using HRT.

As others have said - why would you be a failure, feminist or otherwise, for using a routine and well recognised medication to treat any medical issue?

Alternativefacts · 10/06/2018 12:52

I found it very moving to see the old footage of GG. Force of nature. Hoping Owen Jones was watching and maybe learned a bit. ( shocking to see his tweet a few weeks back ‘I can't see how Germaine Greer is any different from a generic internet troll. Just yuck.’).

Watched with my 17 yr old DS who seemed quietly amused at all my shouting and pointing at the screen along the lines of see what it was like growing up in the 70s/80s, and how she deserves recognition including from those on the left like OJ who see her as an aging irrelevance.

One of many bits that made me laugh outloud...
Interviewer: What were you trying to say?

“That’s a silly question and I’m not going to answer it. You know what I was trying to say. It’s what I fucking said. What kind of a question is that? Shit.”

It’s a very long time since I read the female eunuch - time to read it again.

Macareaux · 10/06/2018 12:57

Merchfach well in my mid fifties, married for the second time and with one child still at home I'm going to read it for the first time.

My father leaving home when I was nine probably set me up so strongly to seek a replacement father figure that maybe even Greer could not have diverted me from that ruinous course.

LassWiADelicateAir · 10/06/2018 15:14

I've never read it and am reading it today. I'm about 20% through it and I'm not that impressed to be honest.

There is an awful lot of sweeping generalisation which might have been true when she wrote it, but even allowing for that some of it feels over-egged, -with an under tone narrative of "that is what life might be/will be for those girls but I'm not like the other girls".

Maybe it eventually gets to giving tips on how not to be one of those under achieving , non conciousness raised girls but for the moment it looks a bit of a vanity project.

WalkLikeAManTalkLikeAMan · 10/06/2018 15:26

Hoping Owen Jones was watching and maybe learned a bit. ( shocking to see his tweet a few weeks back ‘I can't see how Germaine Greer is any different from a generic internet troll. Just yuck.’)

Once you realise OJ spends most of his time projecting his stuff onto others, it's quite telling and amusing. All the way down to 1984 appearing in his Twitter handle.

BlytheByName · 10/06/2018 20:04

She was and is magnificent. The old footage of her debating was mesmerising.
We need a voice like hers. She's totally unapologetic and her sentence that women don't know how much men hates them is truer today.
Because for young woman who don't follow the news and just fool around on Instagram and going out, the Love Island generation, they have no idea how men hate them.
They need someone like GG, dare I say a Magdalen Berns I suppose ... but for straight girls.

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