Hi there!
I am so very grateful to have found Mumsnet. You are wonderful voice of sanity. Sorry about the length of this post, or if you've already discussed this. I am still very new here, and I hope I don't offend anyone.
History tells us that people do not take seriously the concerns of adult human females (formerly known as women), especially if they think it's just a lady problem. So I wonder if we need to look at this from different angles...
It's always struck me that self-ID as a principle is troublesome not just to women. It’s an ideological conundrum. I think there are broader issues surrounding the proposition that we should always go by self-declared gender versus keeping our societal ability to point out distinctions based on natal sex.
How can we encourage broader critical thought in this? Who could be allies? There must be others who can see problems in the "I am this because I say so" principle. Are there any who can join the movement that asks that any changes be carefully risk-assessed and all impacts considered before rushing ahead?
I am thinking of those concerned about potential impacts on freedom of speech, first and foremost. I believe this issue is, after all, how the very controversial Dr Jordan Peterson initially shot to fame. How do journalists feel? What’s the policy on when they can mention natal sex if it's relevant to a story? Might self-ID affect the language they need to use?
What about the trans community? Are they not worried about their ability to define themselves? Is there really no anxiety around the potential of bad-faith actors using self-ID? I genuinely am also concerned that the traditional narrative surrounding what we used to call a transsexual person (those dealing with gender dysphoria, medical treatment and discrimination) is being hijacked by the newer definitions of what trans means… It seems like now a host of different people are being lumped the same category of trans, which strikes me as a little unjust... Honest question - is it really fair that someone who cross-dresses part-time and never plans to change their body is considered trans in exactly the same way as someone who has invested significant time, effort and money to modify their physique just to get to a point where they can live more comfortably?
What about gays and lesbians? Existentially, how do we define homosexuality without giving more weight to the concept of "sex" rather than “gender?” I am a heterosexual woman, who hasn't faced a shred of homophobia in my life, but let's say I had the epiphany that the niggling feeling I've had all my life means that I a man. Could I keep my physical appearance, join the gay community tomorrow and say I share their struggles? How does that make sense?
What about the medical community, who I think ought to be at least a little concerned over potential impacts as to how to organize around biological realities such as screening tests or same sex healthcare provider requests? Or the scientific community, who need to accurately differentiate between the biological sexes in their research?
What about the police? Will they be able to tell each other the natal sex of suspects, if it's relevant to whom they're looking for? What about reporting on someone’s physical appearance to the public - i.e. if they are describing an unknown suspect, can they mention that a person was dressed as a woman but physically appears very masculine (because the person is male) or vice-versa?
How do religious communities feel? In Canada I believe we've have already had a case of a Muslim woman declining to perform a wax on a trans woman, and the salon getting sued. How do issues of faith factor into this?
And finally, what about places like the very powerful traditional gentlemen's clubs who currently only accept males as members? Do we know their policies on trans members? Would they take in self-ID'd men regardless of appearance? I appreciate they're private clubs, but could they be accused of discrimination if they refuse entrance to trans men?
I actually think feminists have common ground with multiple groups.
Because I think restructuring our language and society like this can impact other freedoms: of expression, of belief, of identities.
Self-ID isn't just a women's issue or a trans issue to me.. It's a deep philosophical issue – “must I always agree that you are something just because you say so, despite the objective evidence that runs contrary to your statement?”
Obviously I would wish us to be very careful in all this and I do not wish to demonize anyone. The consequences I worry about aren’t from the people who have been on a difficult journey to try and live in their bodies. I worry about the people who will always exploit a loophole, the really hard cases, the extreme cases, the irresponsible cases. I worry about the kinds of people who are so militant in their principles that they think it makes sense to sue a rape crisis centre. I worry about the kinds of people who are so unthinking of the consequences of their actions that they eat Tide Pods.
I believe you should never, ever, ever underestimate how bizarre things can get when people are involved…
All I know is that I am firmly in the gender critical camp, but at the same time I want trans people to flourish and live their best lives.
I honestly just do not think we can erase the significance of biological sex in favour of blindly accepting whatever people say. It feels like the definition of an Orwellian development, and causes me real distress.
Males and females are different. They just are. We do not have the technology to turn one into the other. If and when we invent the ability to actually do so, you can ask me these questions again.
But for now, for my sanity, I need to keep the ability to acknowledge these facts.
Apologies for this rant, and if my fears are entirely irrational. I do not wish to be unreasonable. I really worry that without the anchor of the reality of biological sex, this whole gender boat will drift off into the sea. I just want to stay in the safe harbour of common sense where we can agree on basic principles, please.
In any case, may I apply to join this "coven" like-minded "witches"?
Are there any good threads on these subjects if you've already talked about them at length?
Thanks again and I hope you are all having a great day!