I don't understand why America still allows child marriage.

[FermatsTheorem]

www.nytimes.com/2017/05/26/opinion/sunday/it-was-forced-on-me-child-marriage-in-the-us.html

11 year old taken out of elementary school (i.e. primary) and forced to marry her rapist.

It’s ghastly. It seems to only ever be female children and adult men, never the other way around. It’s both child abuse & misogyny.

There’s another article by the same journalist this week:

mobile.nytimes.com/2018/06/01/opinion/sunday/child-marriage-delaware.html

From memory, (I’ll try to dig it up later) there were two politicians in the 50s who were pro child marriage and they managed to introduce a law or an amendment to a law which was designed to make any future changes to said law very complicated and difficult

Heard recently that the international, economic implications of child marriage result in the loss of billions of pounds every year

“According to the International Center for Research on Women and the World Bank, ending the practice of child marriage would save billions of dollars in annual welfare expenditures, resulting in global savings of more than $4 trillion by 2030. Simply put, the world cannot afford to allow child marriage to continue”

www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion/2018/06/03/commentary/world-commentary/totaling-terrible-cost-child-marriage/

Each year of school missed out on is thought to reduce IQ by around 10 points. So quite apart from the physical problems that early child bearing has on young bodies, it also affects their ability to help their children to do well (because IQ is generally passed on via the mother)

In this country, we just have a high teenage pregnancy rate and it's not teenage boys who are impregnating them, it's much older men.

Melanippe, which country are you in?
Child marriage boils my piss tbh and I'm astounded anyone in the US can begin to defend it.

Moreover, in the example cited it's hardly consensual. It's legalised rape.

Those are interesting articles, Quarks. I'd be fascinated to read about the historical background to why the law in the US is so hard to change, if you can dig it out. I'd always assumed it was yet another of those bonkers issues where the government couldn't act at a country-wide level because of states' rights, but it sounds like there might be more to it.

And yes, Persifleur, it is indeed legalised rape. Exactly that. (In fact the NYT article explains that in the case of the 11 year old, it was because her rapist was a church elder who was facing statutory rape charges - her parents and the minister forced her to marry to get the guy off the hook).

I think these stories are so shocking many of us in the UK find them hard to believe. It seems almost incomprehensible in a country with a culture that otherwise has so many similarities to ours.

I keep hearing people minimising this - (its not that many) - or denying it happens at all - (its not Western men doing this.)

Yes, Upstart - I mentioned it on an AIBU thread once, and someone flat out told me I must be lying (I took a certain satisfaction from posting links to the Washington Post, New York Times, Independent and BBC to show them I wasn't).

But as that article shows, it's far from "not many", it's thousands. Thousands in the richest, most technologically advanced nation on earth. What the fuck is wrong with their legal and political system that they can't sort this out? (I think I know the answer - the religious right would sooner force children to marry their rapists than imprison rapists, supply contraception and provide abortion to rape victims.)

I did a bit of googling on a previous occasion this was discussed to see , what if anything, the Obama administration did.

The answer was nothing other than a bit of huffing and puffing about how awful it is when it happens in other countries.

omg.

that is horrendous.

It’s the Bible bashing lobby. Obsessed with legitimacy. There was a new NYT article recently that alluded to the rationale.

Anyway, I believe it’s Delaware that’s legislated it into oblivion. So yay for Delaware. Hopefully it will catch on.

Awful.

When men talk about "states rights" in the US this is one of the rights they wish to protect. The white man's right to abuse with impunity.

As an American, I definitely did not know this until I saw it on Mumsnet a few months ago. I had heard of states where the age of consent for marriage is 18, or 16 if there are other circumstances. (I think this is the same as England and Wales.) I think the issue just hasn't had much publicity and a lot of people don't know about it (hence accusation that OP was lying). Look at Kristof's exclamation at the end of the first section -- he know his American readers will be surprised.

I have never heard about any special reason this would be hard to change. Obviously marriage, like most things, is a matter of state law, so that makes it complicated enough.

Melanippe you must have great schools around you if one year can increase IQ by 10 points. . . don't know where to start with that post.

The laws on child marriage have been a disgrace in the US for a long time. The reason that change on a national level would be very difficult is that the Constitution of the United States, in its division of powers provisions, essentially makes marriage laws the province of the states. Changing the Constitution is a very cumbersome process.

The more likely avenue is doing it state by state, which is happening, although much more slowly than I would like. Delaware recently became to first state to institute an absolute ban, making marriage under the age of 18 illegal. My own state, Florida, has the next most stringent law, enacted earlier this year. In Florida the age for marriage is 18, with one exception: 17 year-olds can marry with parental consent, but to no one more than two years older. Just as an observation, that makes Delaware and Florida actually more protective of people under the age of 18 than any of the countries in the UK.

Other states have recently enacted laws that limit the exceptions to marriage of minors, though none are as stringent as Delaware and Florida. Activists are working to make changes in many other states.

Semantics in important here, too. When people in the US talk about child marriage, they generally mean anyone under the age of 18, which is the age of majority in all states (also a matter of state law). So by that understanding, child marriage is legal in the UK as well for 16 and 17 year olds (and without parental consent in Scotland).

That's a good point, Seneca. I'd like to see the age for marriage in the UK raised to 18 (and also the age for joining the army - I just checked and that's still 16, though as far as I know they're not sent into frontline combat at that age - though they are however subjected to training regimes with hazing and endemic bullying).

What seems particularly insane about some of the state laws is that pregnancy is actually given as one of the reasons to allow child marriage! Because it's clearly far worse to have a single mother or allow an abortion than to marry a child to her rapist.

Semantics in important here, too. When people in the US talk about child marriage, they generally mean anyone under the age of 18, which is the age of majority in all states (also a matter of state law). So by that understanding, child marriage is legal in the UK as well for 16 and 17 year olds (and without parental consent in Scotland)

That is- correct 16 in England and Wales with parents' consent. 16 in Scotland, no parental consent needed.

I don't support an increase in those ages.

In 2014 in England and Wales 200 women in age group 16/17 and 40 men in England were married.

I can't find statistics for Scotland.

Lass why don't you support an increase in English law age limits? Would that be oppressive, do you think?

I don't think 16 and 17 year olds are children.

I think it has the potential to be oppressive and potentially implications for accessing contraception and abortion.

I also generally support advancing rights for 16 and 17 year olds, and some of the bright lines that are drawn at the majority age of 18 in the US can be to the detriment of girls. The problem with the marriage laws in some states is that girls were being forced into marriage and that men who had essentially sexually abused them were getting off the hook by marrying them. Florida has to some extent crafted a law that parallels its Romeo and Juliet exception to statutory rape (older teens close in age), and has eliminated any exception that is tied to pregnancy. The law is a step in the right direction in protecting young girls, but the rights of older teens to self-determination can be a problematical issue in crafting these laws.

Also, just to add, laws dealing with the age at which teens can make decisions about important matters should for the most part be consistent in my opinion, which is why I support lowering the drinking age in the US to 18. In Scotland, 16 and 17 year olds can vote in local and Scottish parliamentary elections so there is some recognition that important rights begin at 16.