Help me to frame my responses to Male White Privilege

[JeNeSuisPasVotreMiel]

Help me find the words to frame a retort when these things happen:

1. Working as a manager on an event. A photographer has used the limited disabled car parking to broadside his Merc across several spaces and unpack his tripods. When asked to move he stated his intention to stay, quoting a connection with the landowner (who is not involved with the event). On further insistence from myself that it's disabled parking only in this area, he tells me that he has far more experience in events than I do (mine is 20 years), so that justifies his actions. I explain our duty to the law and he decides to pack up and leave without carrying out his work (which had been offered voluntarily).

1. Teaching a beginners dance class. I offer some advice to one of the male participants on the basic couples hold. He tells me he won't do it like I describe, as he is too tall and it would injure me. I explain that I have danced (12 years experience) with plenty of partners his height and they all manage to do the basic hold in the way we are teaching it (which is the right way). His expresses disbelief and tells me that I don't understand that it wouldn't work and that he won't do it. He clearly believes that his height is unique and means he doesn't have to play by the rules.

Both of these men were white and in their early sixties. They were both clearly affronted at my actions and were keen to discredit my experience and authority.
I am left with a tacit understanding that they disregarded my instructions/requests on the ground of my being female, and younger (a bit) than them.

The older I get the more I understand why men act like they do. They have never been challenged. I'm so angry. They will continue to go about patronising women and quashing their opinions purely on the basis of their perceived superiority.

I would love just one retort to show that I KNOW where they are coming from and that I don't respect it.
Any thoughts?

Some men don't like being told what to do no matter what.

You could either write them off as a bad job, or ask them:

"Are you finding this particularly difficult because I'm a woman? I know a lot of men don't like being told what to do by a woman!!!" polite laugh.

Scenario 1 is quite possibly going to walk away and not listen whatever you do anyway.

I've got one at the moment and it's flummoxing me. He pretends to take direction from the (extremely talented) women but just ignores it. You can see that he just thinks it can't possibly be him.

I've yet to work out how to deal with it. I do think it must be hard to suddenly realise you aren't the actual centre of the universe. But not as bloody hard as being told you're not repeatedly!

The first guy, being a volunteer there's very little I think you could have done differently. You can take action in future and don't ask for or accept his volunteering again, and explain why to anyone who asks.

The second guy, I'd have just done the stuck record on him, and repeated myself without getting drawn into a debate. If he persisted, I might have got to the point of inviting him to sit out the dance if he feels he can't manage to do the required positions.

I don't think there's any point trying to get across that you know they're being shitty because you're a woman. It would be water off a ducks back I think.

The first bloke walked away and as a volunteer you can do nothing. The second is so stuck in his ways you can’t change him. You can only work on the younger generation and hope they will see things differently, whilst continuing to educate the older ones who are more willing

You have no leverage with either of those men.
All you can do is state the facts once and then in the first case have the vehicle hauled away and in the second case dismiss them from the class for refusing to follow directions.
If you do not have the capacity to do either of those things then you have no leverage. Take no for an answer and do not waste your breath on arguing.

Doesn't it just drive you to distraction sometimes?!
I haven't yet come up with the definitive response, so interested to hear the experience of others.

I think it is my age that causes me not to care enough about these men to try to help them be better people.
I used to teach unarmed defensive tactics at the Law Enforcement Academy and from time to time a man like this would be in the class.
If they refuse to learn we had a meeting with them and if they still refused to learn we dropped them from the class.
You cannot force people to learn, nor are there any magic words that will cause them to.

Not 100% relevant but this post reminded me of when I was a new legal secretary and got knocked back for a job because the man was looking for a "senior girl". Wish to this day that I'd told him "senior girl" is an oxymoron.

"I realise that I am a women but if you can just imagine for one moment that I am a man and hear what I have to say again." Not sure I would have the courage to say that but if really annoyed...

What makes you think their response was because you were a woman and they wouldn't have done the same with a man?

I've been in classes with male instructors and never seen men behave that way.

Lichtie

It's not just the words used, it's the infantalising, patronising tone of address as well. I have never in 57 years seen men address other men in this fashion. If one man fancies himself the alpha, they have a different way of addressing men they see as inferior or their junior. Frankly if a man had been addressed in the way some men have addressed me over the years, fists would have come into play.

Give you an example...
My car kept cutting out; I'd be driving along and suddenly no power.

Took care into garage, described symptoms to chap on service desk, who said and this is a direct quote "Does Madam know how to start a stalled car?" in a very patronising tone. My reply was to the effect - Madam does. Now get me someone who will listen to what I have to say. Do you really think one man would say something like that in that tone to a customer, a paying customer. Makes me seethe even now, some 20 years later.

@Lichtie the man I'm thinking about is blatant. He talks to the other men more than the women and with more respect. Always. It's really obvious. And it's happened a lot.

That's not to say all men are like this at all. But there are some men who will have to be convinced I know what I'm talking about. Even when I'm an expert in the field.

both those instances have nothing to do with race and any attempt to bring race into it are pathetic, white people and white men don't have a monopoly on acting like arseholes

The dance guy, why don't you have them dance and then tell the class "doing it like that is counterproductive because...this is how one can improve". Would serve him right for looking like an idiot.

@DPotter @MrsTerryPratchett

I was asking the OP the question. I genuinely can't see why she gets to the assumption that it is because she is a woman and that they are not just assholes who would do the same with men.
And the fact they are white doesn't seem that relevant either. As another poster said.. White men don't have a monopoly on being assholes.. Plenty of non white and women are assholes too.

Presumably because she was there and experienced it.

"I realise that I am a women but if you can just imagine for one moment that I am a man and hear what I have to say again."

I resorted to that once. It didn’t work. Therefore I’d like to join the hunt for better answers

Lichtie
Thinking over the real headliner instances where this has happened to me, I can't remember one where the man concerned wasn't white. Now I am prepared to accept this may be a statistical anomaly. I have had men of colour be downright aggressive to me, but never this patronising, male privilege. And yes they do tend to be of a certain age - late middle age.

I have also seen at least one of these men behave in a totally different way when a man associated with me turns up. Think in terms of my male partner getting out of the car when such a man is exerting his male privilege over a perceiving motoring infringement with a woman he thought was alone in the car. It was almost funny - he took one look at my DP (not a tall or threatening chap) and muttered "er - sorry mate" and drove off.

So yes - it is most definitely a thing. If you haven't directly experienced it yourself, then I think you're fortunate, but that doesn't mean to say it doesn't happen. Or maybe you're male......?

DPotter. I nowhere suggested it wasn't a thing or it doesn't happen. It's the labelling of every instance of it as something to do with white male privilege where there is no reason to believe the arsehole who wouldn't move his car would have done so for a man. If it was a black female photographer who had done the same thing how would you label that?
I'm off to grow a penis 😋

You're not listening @Lichtie. The woman who was there experiencing it is in the best position to judge whether this man was treating her differently that he would a man. No one is suggesting that every time someone is an arse it's because of their sex or race.

I am listening Assassinatedbeauty. I asked the OP a reasonable question, she hasn't answered.
I'm sure the photographers story that he is telling people is different to the OPs, does that mean his version is even more reliable? All I asked was what made her believe it was because she was a woman and not just him being an ass.

I'm sure the photographer is telling a different story to himself, never mind others. But if it quacks and waddles it's probably a duck. It could be a confused chicken, I suppose...

I have had this happen recently with a Chinese-heritage man so it's not just white men. He and his wife asked for advice and I spent ages explaining it to him. About half the time was the requisite 'convince the man you know what you are taking about' phase of the conversation. Bearing in mind I teach people how to teach this, and speak at conferences. He kept saying, 'but my male lawyer says'. I finally sent him a few links that proved his lawyer was wrong. I finally told his wife I wouldn't be helping them any more if he needed convincing. He took my advice, the situation resolved and I am still waiting for a thank you from him.

Litchie my answer was delayed because I've been at work and not on here.

My experience is real to me, and to many others. Minimising it by saying 'not all white men'/'not all men' is tiresome. It changes the narrative, erases the nuance and hijacks the very real issues that women face under the patriarchy, which consists of overwhelmingly white men, at least in the parts of the world I operate in.

We can't afford to be inclusive here because the world has never been inclusive of us or our stories, ever.

Another example today - a van had a flat battery. No one present (except me) understood how to use the jump leads properly. I had to shout loud over the confused chatter to get myself heard - yet the men who were there had their words reverently followed.

Example... we bought the car we did partially because of the difference in service. In every other showroom, men spoke to DH, who knows absolutely nothing about cars and makes ZERO impression that he does. He looks blank and talks about paint colours while I talk about suspension and turbos. The showroom from which we bought did a good job (NAMALT) but every other one did a terrible job, deferring to DH, showing DH the specs, trying to get him in the driving seat, while he said things like, "she's the one you need to convince, mate".

All things being equal it would have been glaringly obvious who to talk to. But sexism means most of them spoke to DH. There is no other possible explanation because DH isn't hiding his total lack of knowledge, interest and investment. He told them to talk to me, but even then, most of them still didn't. He didn't even test drive most of the cars, because if I don't like it, there's no point. But they kept handing him the keys.