The Times today- pro choice promise and threat in one

[ChattyLion]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-44268709

So the ripples of the fantastic result yesterday for Ireland carry on...

Bloody hell! i feel like I have woken up in a fantastic, tangibly hopeful for change alternative universe having campaigned on pro choice stuff for years.

Not a Times subscriber so link is to what the papers say on BBC but in short:

-the front page of the Times (!) is setting out the facts that NI is still under a 19th century abortion law, (offences against the person act) causing 3 women to travel to mainland Britain for abortion care.
-(Only recently have NI women (who are UK taxpayers like anyone else) been able to get their treatment costs covered by the NHS, they used to be in exactly the same position as women in RoI.)
-There isn’t the standard anti choice person being quoted in the Times saying women should get back in their box. This is really important influential stuff. Looks like the Times supports change- that influence should not be underestimated.

• influential top Tory women are quoted making pro choice arguments about extending the 1967 Abortion Act to NI in on-the-record numbers that May surely cannot ignore.

-there will be some Tory men that agree with them. Others will too and it’s a free vote issue so party whips can’t force MPs’ hands.

• Stella Creasy MP (lab) is suggesting the vehicle for extending the 1967 Act to NI could be a domestic violence bill she is working on. again, fantastic staunch support there. She will hopefully gather Labour support around this issue.
• Jacob Rees-Mogg MP (Con) is expected to try to lower the time limit - this is a serious threat and must not be underestimated.

-Tories have a history of trying to do this as a kind of thin end of the wedge attempt when they know they can’t get support for more fundamental restrictions on abortion. Rees Mogg has a lot of support incl as an alternative leader to Theresa May and he could use this issue as a means to coalesce support around himself if he did want to be a serious challenger to the PM.
-problems with that, being that if May can genuinely- or just self servingly claim- that her leadership is under threat, some MPs will vote against pro choice change proposed by this group of Tory women. Party before country etc.

-The only virtue May brings really is stability for the party riven over Brexit, so this is a powerful disincentive for change if she can spin it. Alternatively if some MPs want to get rid of May, they could be tempted to support Rees-Mogg and then women are seriously in trouble.

all this is absolutely amazing and wonderful to read and I really desperately hope that MPs will act on it.

Quick special mention to the Irish PM for his campaigning and welcoming the outcome saying we must trust women (so brilliant - just not something I have heard a UK PM say EVER..) I could not imagine May doing that. Really hope I am wrong, but.

I am still feeling really elated and hopeful and emotional about the Irish result- that has been such a hard won battle for Irish women) but it seriously feels that we need to be ready to organise again soon in the UK.

The UK needs a new act on abortion that enshrines as early as possible and as late as necessary.

Sorry multitask posting- the amazing and wonderful bit is the RoI result ofc

I have a Times sub chattylion if you tell me which article (there are many on the referendum today) I'll get a share token link.

This one?

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/leading-tory-women-revolt-against-may-0c9nbvgll?shareToken=2baec5cac379c9fd53c9f11c05ebb5f7

Yes- thank you so much Igneo

Also:
www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/irelands-march-to-the-future-starts-with-solidarity-b8x2v39sp?shareToken=60fece3624619337662d0247ab431663

The ‘leading Tory women’ one.

That’s another good article, the second one that you linked to. The Times is being fab

When Labour was in government they used to knock back the Labour women that suggested this saying it would disrupt the peace process is NI women were given the same abortion rights as the rest of the UK. Anyway that is really no longer a sustainable position given the Irish outcome.

This support of NI women’s rights is long overdue and amazing to see and having a quick route to do it for women would be really good.

BUT i think we need the 1967 Act scrapping, so we can have a new Act that decriminalises abortion, which is not based on the 19thC act, which remains in force .

• the 1967 Act just brings in a legal defence to the offences against the person act, the 19thC crime on abortion

-that defence is only applicable in England Scotland and Wales, only if the 2 drs agree woman can have the abortion. Which is why NI women were left out of the cold -We need to consign that legal basis to history so future to governments can’t turn the clock back. We need an act that establishes that safe, accessible, legal abortion rights = basic human rights. Not a defence to something that is always illegal except for xyz conditions that MPs can try to tinker with to score points or impose their religiously based objections on everyone else ( Jacob Rees Mogg). -Another reason for a new Act dedicated to Abortion only is to unlink the 1967 Act to the act on embryo research and IVF-(human fertilisation and embryology Act) -the link makes it very hard to make legal changes in that area, which is always changing scientifically, while it remains linked to abortion. because nobody in government wants to have a fight/risk abortion rights by opening up either Act and scientists don’t want to have the fight with the anti choice people so they don’t push it. -This potentially holds back change for UK women who need medical help to try for a pregnancy as well as help to end a pregnancy, so the link is not helpful.

Good points from the Family Planning Association
www.fpa.org.uk/news/ireland-has-voted-repeal-eighth-amendment

25TH MAY, 2018
Joint statement from FPA and the All-Party Parliamentary Group on Sexual and Reproductive Health

We are delighted with today’s outcome that will pave the way for Irish women to access the healthcare they need in their own country.

The UK government must now ensure that women in Northern Ireland, who are being forced to continue pregnancies against their will or being forced to travel overseas to access the reproductive services they need, are not left behind.

Abortion in Northern Ireland is only available in exceptional circumstances - this does not include in cases of rape, incest or fatal fetal anomaly.

As a result, women are being silenced, stigmatised and criminalised by Victorian laws that are outdated, out of line with public opinion and in violation of international human rights laws.

Last year, at least 724 women from Northern Ireland travelled to England to access an abortion. This is despite the fact that all polls indicate that the vast majority of people support reform of Northern Ireland’s restrictive law.

In February this year, the UN Committee on the Elimination of Discrimination Against Women (CEDAW) called the law in Northern Ireland “a grave and systemic violation of rights” and recommended that abortion be decriminalised. Following this, a historic vote took place in Belfast City Council in which 34 councillors, representing seven political parties, supported a motion to decriminalise abortion. Only 16 councillors opposed and the motion was passed which shows the current political appetite in Northern Ireland to progress this issue.

There is currently no devolved government in Northern Ireland. However, even when power-sharing returns, the UK government is responsible for ensuring that Northern Ireland complies with human rights treaties ratified by the UK, including the recommendations made by CEDAW.

Westminster must act to ensure this outdated, unpopular and inhumane law is brought into the 21st century.

Personal and determined pro-choice article in the Guardian from Jess Philips MP

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/may/27/jess-phillips-i-had-an-abortion-and-will-fight-for-rights-for-everyone

I think it is highly unlikely that given the tories need to be propped up by the DUP that anything can be done even if there is political will in the Tory party itself.

DUP have NI and the tories.

I hope both showers of shite get voted out at the first opportunity.

DUP are not numerous in Westminster parliament -which is where this decision will be made- though DUP are unprecedentedly important given the Tories need them this much. They and other Tories who are anti choice will be very discomfited by this Irish result and will be looking to stop increasing modernisation in Britain.

So we could have nothing changing, which would be a bad outcome,
or
we could have Rees Mogg trying to get a restriction on the 1967 Act’s current provision- for example trying to lower the time limit in the Abortion Act.

If May comes out with a pro choice position for NI after these women MPs have all come out for it, I wondered if Rees Mogg wanted to get her out, whether he could be tempted to try to run an anti choice campaign as part of a leadership challenge to try to get anti choice Tories behind him as a prospective leader.

Eg Nadine Dorries MP (anti choice MP who tried to get the time limit lowered about ten years ago during the last Labour govt, which came to a Parliamentary vote) seems to be mentioning Rees Mogg and leadership quite a bit lately even before the Ireland result.

I feel confident that as the pro choice position gathers steam in Westminster, anti choice activity will start to ramp up too in response. This Irish result will be deeply unsettling for anti choice politicians.
Pro choice people need to organise soon to push for change on the light of the Irish vote and to make sure current provision in Britain is modernised, not rolled back.

This BBC article shows more politicians gettIng behind positive change for NI

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-44272326

I fully expect this entire issue to be totally ignored by May for the rest of her term.

It involves too much risk.

‘Dr [Sarah] Wollaston [MP, Con] said she and other MPs in favour of abortion reform would put forward an amendment on the issue to Westminster's Domestic Violence Bill.
However, she said she was not sure if the amendment would be accepted for debate as abortion would normally be a devolved issue for Stormont to decide on.’

I cant accept that women in NI suffer like this and Westminster does nothing. There is no working forum in NI for this decision to be made. Westminster must do it.

It’s horrendous.

Unfortunately, that’s how the tories work. When something is difficult politically for them they construct a wall of silence and hope it will blow over.

They can’t just shrug it off this time. This time feels different.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-44272326

BBC say May ‘will have to do something.’

Yeah I know but that is said a lot. It was said about Grenfell and getting something done was a hard battle even though there weren’t any DUP issues AND it was in London. It has been said about Windrush, UC, the UN finding re disabled people....

I really really would like it if May did do something but they don’t really have a good track record re doing something about shocking things. They just do nothing, send out a standard message that doesn’t address anything and then wait for people to forget about it and move on to the next thing.

The Tories have an absolutely shocking record re NI. Most of them didn’t even realise re Brexit that there would be a total fuck up re the border and the GFA... Dominic Raab was still saying in the local election coverage that NI wasn’t important re Brexit negotiations....

People complain about the north of England (where I am) being ignored by Westminster but at least they know we exist most of the time... It’s like they don’t even see NI the majority of the time.

Agree with you about the awful track record of course but hoping the pressure stays on because other issues also play into this. I do think it has to happen. Saying that, the passive May response is hanging in there for now:

‘Downing Street is understood to believe that any reform "is an issue for Northern Ireland". But a Downing Street source said it showed "one of the important reasons we need a functioning executive back up and running".’

www.bbc.co.uk/news/44275372

Oh yes, it is absolutely right to keep the pressure on and not let it lapse once the Irish referendum result becomes ‘old news’ for most people.

This morning Labour have taken an opportunity to press May:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44286055

’Labour has challenged Theresa May to show she really is a feminist by backing reform of Northern Ireland's strict abortion law.

Shadow Attorney General Shami Chakrabarti said women in Northern Ireland "have been let down by privileged women and men for too long".

She said the PM was a "self-identifying feminist" and "the test of feminists is whether they stick up for all women".
Following Ireland's historic vote, the PM has been urged to liberalise NI law.’

A few things to say here- I kind of care less about what May describes herself as than what she does.. it’s a very current-era authoritarian Labour jibe to make this based on on May’s political identity- ’if you say you are x, you must do/feel/believe y’...

Also the use of ‘self-identifying’ in this context is a bit telling... Chakrabarti is saying that May should NOT be recognised as a feminist just because May said she was a feminist and just because May once wore a tshirt perhaps typically associated as feminist clothes by some people. possibly not feminists themselves of course.

Have m/any feminists claimed Theresa May as a feminist? Do I need to wear a tshirt that says I am a feminist to be a feminist? No because being that is not about mere ‘self-identifying’ or wearing a slogan tshirt idea of ‘what feminists wear’.

Contrast with: labour’s policy on legal gender self ID which takes self-identification extremely seriously...

On the other hand the pressure absolutely needs to be kept up on May by Labour.
I just wish Labour would argue this about the facts and about the politics of women’s liberation in a recovering post-conflict society where we know from experience that women and children’s rights are likely to suffer.

This argument is about the UK women and girls who need or want an abortion, who are suffering physically, emotionally, financially and are put under a great deal of social stigma for no reason, except for to make anti-choice, happily-female-endangering people based in NI and Westminster feel better, by still being about to point to a last bastion in the UK who has not taken up with this ‘liberalisation’ .

I mean, GTFO making your own private feelings more important over other women’s choice over their own private bodies and whether they should become a mother at this time or not.

Shows so clearly that any choice people don’t give a fuck about what happens to the children of women forced to give birth, while they are living in their bizarre world of stereotyping. Anti choice is about punishing the wrong kind of woman for having the wrong kind of sex. Is Northern Ireland internationally famed for its legendary support of women bringing up children alone? Is it fuck.

Ugh and the BBC using the word ‘liberalisation’ is annoying. It’s not ‘liberal’ to finally start talking at senior level about offering something in NI that the rest of the UK has had for 50 YEARS now...

Yy

As this is to do with devolved powers in Northern Ireland I think May would be foolish to touch it. Not because it is not needed but because it is NI. Just imagine the outcry in Scotland if Westminster decided to legislate on something that had been devolved to the Scottish Government. And while the DUP May be reviled on the mainland UK, it is a mainstream party in NI. What is more needed and more important is for the NI power sharing executive to restart so this issue can be addressed in situ.

Also www.theguardian.com/world/2018/may/27/theresa-may-oppose-vote-northern-ireland-abortion-law

‘Theresa May was facing growing demands to allow a referendum on relaxing the abortion laws in Northern Ireland on Sunday after signalling that she will not risk alienating her DUP allies by letting MPs settle the matter with a parliamentary vote.

Conservative MPs and the Royal College of Midwives were among those calling for a referendum, which would give voters in Northern Ireland the chance to follow the example set by the Republic of Ireland after it backed abortion liberalisation by a surprise landslide of two to one.

Around 160 MPs have backed a letter, championed by the Labour MP Stella Creasy, saying the government should legislate to relax the abortion rules in Northern Ireland, which will now be the only place in Britain and Ireland where abortion is in most circumstances illegal. Creasy wants to force a vote by tabling an amendment to the forthcoming domestic violence bill.

Labour also said that, as a party, it was committed to extending the right to choose to Northern Ireland and that it would be “looking at legislative options” to try to orchestrate a vote in the Commons.’