Now give us the right to abortion in Northern Ireland

[Elendon]

This is a great piece from the Guardian.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/may/26/now-give-us-the-right-to-abortion-in-northern-ireland

Human rights issue is the way to go I think. They are withholding women's human rights from UK citizens because of their location in NI.

I thought abortion was a devolved matter for NI. According to Wiki:-

Health policy is part of the devolved powers transferred to the Northern Ireland Assembly (NIA) by the Northern Ireland Act of 1998 in the frame of the devolution in the United Kingdom. Abortion Law in Northern Ireland falls within the scope of the of the Criminal Law in Northern Ireland. Criminal Justice and Policing powers were devolved to Northern Ireland in 2010.

Abortion was devolved to Holyrood in 2015. Constitutionally Theresa May is correct- it is not for Westminster to change this any more than it would be for Westminster to change the law in Scotland.

That is why human rights discrimination is the way to go. Because health is a devolved issue.

I agree.

Either a test case is brought against Westminster (which Westminster can pay lip service to appearing in) or the DUP and Sinn Fean stop behaving like obnoxious brats and resurrect Stormont and a test case is brought against Stormont.

Westminster are bulldozing their way right through the devolution settlement in Scotland atm. They want to be able to change legislation in any and all devolved areas for the next seven years (after Brexit). They are willing to consult the Scottish Parliament, who can say "Yes" to WM suggestions (and they'll go ahead), or not make a decision (and they'll go ahead), or of course they can say "No" (and, you guessed it, WM will go ahead anyway... It's democracy, you see, will of the people). So with that in mind, I am heartened that Ms May thinks it would be wrong to intervene in devolved issues in NI, and hope that attitude prevails with other nations of this marvellous, precious union.

Won't hold my breath though.

This is not the the thread to bring up your Scottish separatist agenda. Go and start one somewhere more appropriate.

It was in response to your comment that it's not for WM to change this, any more than it would be in Scotland. I'm just pointing out that they are very happy indeed to intervene in devolved issues in Scotland (where there is a functioning Parliament) so it's not much of an excuse when it comes to NI, where there is no current Assembly. Nothing to do with a "separatist agenda".

The proposal seems to be for WM to sanction a referendum in NI, I think. So, allow voters in NI to decide, in the absence of a functioning assembly? Which would hardly be the 'bullying' paisley whines about:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/mps-call-for-free-vote-on-abortion-reform-in-ulster-cn0r3b5pc?shareToken=5118a6646c28f567d39bf4a711c4119d

I think that this will be kicked into the long grass. As HirpleswithHaggis said, WM is happy to ignore devolution when it suits them, plus NI doesn't actually have a devolved government at the moment AFAIK.

Brexit is going really shittily for May, and she really needs the DUP on board, so she won't be doing anything about the issue.

But just calling a referendum will likely fail if manipulated from US or elsewhere if they dont get people who are very savvy and committed to run the campaign, in the republic people have been on the case about this since 1983, 1992 and 2002 - and popular awareness has been encouraged by really awful cases that made people ashamed of what we were doing to women - I dont know if Savita or Michelle Harte made the news so much in the North or if there are cases that can shock people into realising change is needed?

Well we can all help by pressing our own MP for action to make sure they dont bleedin kick it into grass and just having found this research, which indicate attitudes to abortion are not in dark ages in NI, it is definitely worth a try

www.ulster.ac.uk/news/2017/june/ulster-university-research-reveals-attitudes-to-abortion-in-northern-ireland

There was a protest outside Belfast City Hall today.

Not mentioned here of course.

Sammy Wilson, DUP called the women 'Sirens'

www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/irish-abortion-referendum-demolition-of-protection-for-unborn-a-death-sentence-says-northern-ireland-minister-36953976.html

Men who demand that women produce human resources or die trying set the table for women's rights advocates.

By here, do you mean Mumsnet Elendon? It's mentioned in the article. And if you do mean Mumsnet, what do you mean by "of course"?

I meant the link in my post. FlaviaAlbia.

Since you are being so prescriptive.

Thanks for clearing that up. I was confused also.

But it is mentioned it there, that's why I asked, it seemed odd to complain there was no mention of it on Mumsnet.

I did start the thread Flavia!

I wasn't complaining either!

The link says 'On Monday'

There is no date to this.

It's not good enough. It has been widely talked about on the BBC. Why can't the Belfast Tele get on board with this?

Well, it is the Belfast Telegraph. You wouldn't expect feminism from the Daily Mail...

Julie Bindel writes sometimes for the Daily Mail.

What you really want to say is that the Tele is a Unionist paper. But you wont. So I will.

No, that's not what I want to say

The Belfast Telegraph printed the interview with the flatmate that reported the woman to the police and if it wasn't the words of Bernadette Symthe I'll eat my hat. I wouldn't expect a paper that routinely prints shite like that to report on pro choice rallies.

Anyway, I'll leave you to your thread now.

Had the rage when I heard sammy Wilson giving off on r4 today

Yes and the flatmates were all ‘its Because she didn’t seem REMORSEFUL enough to us. tis like camus’ The Outsider all over again.

The Times has another piece today, an editorial which I think expresses the situation clearly

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/right-to-choose-7bmb66gpw?shareToken=59228562f0812780f3c75070bc8074d2

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-44507054

Sinn Féin delegates have voted to change the party's position on abortion at a conference in Belfast.
Members comprehensively backed a leadership motion stating that women should have access to abortions within "a limited gestational period".
The party can now support a law due to be brought before the Irish parliament, which is expected to allow abortions within the first 12 weeks of pregnancy.
More than 20 Sinn Féin branches had called for a free conscience vote.
The decision comes shortly after a referendum in the Republic of Ireland removed a constitutional amendment which effectively outlawed abortion.
Previously Sinn Féin had backed making terminations available in circumstances like fatal foetal abnormality, rape or sexual abuse.
However, the party will now back a policy put forward by the Sinn Féin leadership that is broadly in line with the new Irish law, which is expected to make abortion available to women within the first 12 weeks of their pregnancies.
Sinn Féin's Stormont leader Michelle O'Neill opened the debate and told delegates: "No-one is saying members can't have a conscience and you're entitled to have your viewpoint respected, but there is a difference between personal views and our role as legislators."
However, the few speakers supportive of a conscience vote said that by not allowing members to have a free vote, SF was effectively going to create a "cold house" for those members who take a different view on abortion.

The policy the leadership are pushing seems to be same as Ireland- 12 weeks and under on demand. No two signatures from doctors, being frightened that your GP will not refer you and gatekeeper etc. But also younger, more vulnerable girls and women with least wherewithal in difficult situations aren’t well served by 12 weeks cut off point. Anyway - interesting to see what the party does with this policy position. It’s not at all like the Abortion Act in the rest of Britain.