W the actual F - title options on gov. security clearance forms

[Mallorie]

I've been instructed to fill in an online form to obtain basic level security clearance for a new project at work. The form is provided by disclosureservices.com on behalf of the UK government.

Page 1, select Mr/Mrs/Ms/Miss/Baroness/Dr, whatever. I choose Ms.

Page 6, have you ever been known by any other name? Well, no, I haven't, but since I chose Ms earlier, the 'no' option is non-functional and I must either a. enter a surname I've gone by previously or b. go back to page 1 and change Ms to Miss.

The 'explanation' they give on the in-form guidance is basically that lots of women are too dumb forget to enter their 'maiden name' (GOD I hate that phrase) so they've decided to construct the form this way to account for that, rather than, I don't know, adding in an extra reminder on this page as an 'are you sure?' pop-up message, for example. They say it's to ensure the forms are completed correctly and that no sexism is intended.

And just to make it that much better, if you are transgender, on the very first page, they offer an alternative to filling out the online form so that you don't have to disclose your previous name where your employer will see it. So they obviously HAVE thought of accommodating some people... just not, you know, actual women who want to use the actual title that forms part of their actual name.

I'm not particularly one to fly the flag for Scotland but if you do complain about this it might be worth mentioning calling yourself Ms (or even Mrs- as "Mrs" has no legal status) and saying you have had no other names does not make Disclosure Scotland bat an eyelid.

There were threads on this with ? some service like dvla or crb or something, years ago. That is you said Ms they assumed you MUST be a. diverced and therefore b. have a different surname which is a shit-ton of assumptions to make.

Of course many responses saying get over it, it's trivial etc.

Women have been faced with this loads over the years, plus all sorts of other stuff, around marriage / names.

Bottom line is, they should accept that you identify as Ms. Strangely, that is not good enough. You MUST do as you are told.

Meanwhile other sorts of people say they want to be addressed as XYZ and everyone says yes of course jump right to it...

Interesting.

How bizarre, I did NOMS clearance 2 years ago, still have the form, I selected ms and didn't have the same problem you are experiencing...

Use Mr.

It’s as correct as Miss.

As long as you put your sex as female there is nothing illegal or dishonest.

Are you sure it's a government thing, or is it a bulk e-disclosure company?

I had an issue getting my employer to agree to putting my title, they said it had to be Mrs or Miss. Eventually they admitted I could have Ms, although I'm Dr really.

And when I rang about the surname issue, I had to correct them three times about the use of 'maiden name' and use 'birth name'. "What's your maiden name?" "My birth name is Bunting." "blah blah, put in your maiden name." "Do you mean my birth name?" "There you should have your maiden name." "Do you mean my birth name? I can assure you I was no 'maiden' for about half the time I used it."

thank you for complaining. Until people do, nothing will change. It is crap.

I also usually choose 'Mr', as it's the most similar to Dr, which is correct for me. But my employer refused to use Mr, as I'm clearly female.

And when I rang about the surname issue, I had to correct them three times about the use of 'maiden name' and use 'birth name'. "What's your maiden name?" "My birth name is Bunting." "blah blah, put in your maiden name." "Do you mean my birth name?" "There you should have your maiden name." "Do you mean my birth name? I can assure you I was no 'maiden' for about half the time I used it.

Considering the powers that be managed to get rid of “christian name” on forms etc it is not impossible to make this change.

But “maiden” name is only women that get offended, not religions.

Why even have a title? I can't believe the title would be relevant in any sort of background check. I do database checks by name as part of my job, we don't even have the option of placing a title. It's name then if there is a hit you check other identifying information. Why choose to embroil yourself in title issues? I remember a Professor at my university remarking that all her mail was addressed to Dr. & Mrs., however she was the Dr.!

OP out of interest I have been filling in an online Basic criminal record check on the Gov.uk site using the English application and it hasn't asked me for any title.

What you are using is CRB Disclosure Services Limited. I wonder if this is a commercial provider (like those passport service sites)

For example it has a link to the Scottish site but it does not take me to the site I used to get mine but a sister site of the company.

Are you sure it's a government thing, or is it a bulk e-disclosure company?

Didn't spot that, but I'm sure you are right. It isn't a my.gov.uk site.

Urgh. This system must have been designed by my mum, who continues to insist that Ms is a mark of shame only used by divorcees

What someone upthread said about this not being a government website. No point complainig to Govt if this is not a service provided under contract or directly by a government agency.

Is this a DBS check or CTC/SC ?

I am Ms Toothbrush. I have always been Ms Toothbrush. I am married. But I'm not Mrs Toothbrush - that leads to Mr Soap being called Mr Toothbrush. And he's not.

The irony is that I decided to stay Ms Toothbrush because Mrs Soap is a shitty name and it would be easier and less hassle than changing my name.

The reality of not changing my name is it has been a pain in the arse because other people are either fuckwits or dinosaurs.

I am glad I didn't change it, but I never imagined that having the nerve to dare to keep my name would upset other people or confuse other people so much.

It's not that hard. Ms Toothbrush has always been Ms Toothbrush and just happens to be married.

Oh and Barclays made me PROVE I was married before they allowed me to change my paper work from miss to ms.

Why???

Oh and Barclays made me PROVE I was married before they allowed me to change my paper work from miss to ms

Clydesdale and Bank of Scotland had no difficulty with this.

I had brother trying change license as wanted MS not miss but as I got when I was 17 wasn’t to bothered then now I do. But still came back with “miss”. Presumably as I couldn’t show how I’ve changed it as nothing legal I can send it’s just a preference so dosnt matter.

"Oh and Barclays made me PROVE I was married before they allowed me to change my paper work from miss to ms. "

100% grade A bonkers.

I fluctuate. I always used to be ms, now I am usually ms but sometimes mrs depending on mood.

Suppose I am title-fluid?

The parallels here are very interesting.

And as lots of people have pointed out, when it was women saying I hate being called the wrong name, this institution has changed my name without my permission to a name that is not mine and won't change it back etc

Loads of people said

Tradition, so what, dont' make a fuss, shut up.

What if you're divorced and have reverted to your original surnames but use Miss? I know more than one person who's done this.

Yes, quite rosy - does the opposite logic (I use the term loosely) apply, i.e. you can't be Ms without a previous name and you can't be Miss with a previous name?

Aren't they committing "literal violence" against you by refusing to use your preferred title?

I do find it offensive to be called Mrs Soap tbh. I am not DH's possession and I made a conscious decision not to take his name. Much to my grandmother's bafflement and my MIL annoyance.

It's disrespectful especially when done by people who should know.

Friends seem to also have an issue and send letters to Red and Green rather than Red Toothbrush and Green Soap. It's not hard to know what my name is. You've known me for over fifteen flipping years. It's in my fucking Facebook profile if you are having difficulty.

Barclays response was special. It seemed to be official policy because of how difficult they were about it.

I also had a Nationwide member of staff tell me it was illegal to keep my maiden name after marriage. Yes really. I complained about that one.

It does piss me off greatly, but this every day sexism is just viewed as something you should just suck up.