Why are identity politics described as 'Marxism'?

[Destinysdaughter]

I'm really baffled by this, Marxism is about economics and the means of production, however I've heard identity politics, including Trans issues described as ' cultural Marxism'. Can anyone in the know please explain this to me? ( sorry if this doesn't seem appropriate to be in Feminist chat, but it's come up a lot here) Thanks!

It refers to cultural Marxism which is something really quite different. It originates from the Frankfurt school which you can google if you like. If you want a quick and dirty definition try this link

www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=cultural%20marxism

Sorry I don't know how do do clicky link.

Isn’t cultural Marxism just a misappropriated term used as a slur by the alt-right types?

I guess that's up for debate but I was just answering the OP's confusion about why identity politics are described as marxism.

@DestinysDaughter

"I'm really baffled by this, Marxism is about economics and the means of production, however I've heard identity politics, including Trans issues described as ' cultural Marxism"

Jordan Peterson frequently refers to "Postmodern Neo-Marxists"

This refers to the fact that Marxism was about the power/class struggle between the proletariat and the bourgeoisie

Neo-marxist identity politics has replaced the proletariat and the bourgeoisie with a power struggle based on group identity eg race, sex.

Straight White men have all the power/privilege, everyone else has less privilege and more oppression based on their group identity.

I'm less confident/assured of these next paragraphs, at least not without doing more research - this is all from the top of my head

The postmodern aspect of "Postmodern neo-marxism" is the idea that there is more than one way to interpret the world, and that the traditional ways of categorising the world were devised to suit those in power eg straight white men.

So the idea is that women are oppressed by their gender roles. Postmodernism would seek to liberate women from those roles by replacing gender with the idea that gender is a social construct and a spectrum.

This is also why you see University students seeking to "decolonise" their curriculums - it's because all the classical pillars of the sciences, literature, philosophy etc - basically everything that helped form Western civilisation and ideals, was generated by white men

The "cultural marxism" stuff veers into conspiracy theory territory, I believe the idea is that a group of German scholars/academics wanted to subvert Western democracies

Surely Marxism is all about class struggle not economics?

I found this and it's really interesting

‘Cultural Matxism’ is a daft phrase.

‘Cultural totalitarianism’ is a much better way of expressing the same ideas about agressive policing of language and ideas, and the authoritarian imposition of strict limits on what is considered ‘acceptable’ discourse.

It doesn’t trip off the tongue so easily, though.

I thought the idea that gender is a social construct (tied to sex roles) came from second wave feminism as a way of distinguishing from sex.

The postmodern argument is that gender can be performed or is performed (Butler), and is about narrative, discourses and identities which are not universal (hence intersectionality as a mode of analysis and the means of recognising multiple forms of oppression), hence can have endless variations. It’s the way in which these identities and markers are read as masculine or feminine (or indeed, trans) which give them meaning, not the material embodied physicality of the person.

Once you detach the sex roles aspect of gender and make it about how one presents/is read, then it becomes possible to believe in oneself as a gender, rather than seeing gender roles as something externally imposed to maintain social order.

And of course, freedom of belief is a human right, and thus if one wants to believe one’s gender is female, this essentially means one believes one is presenting/performing as female, hence one is female (because gender has replaced sex)

At least, that is what I think the logic is. But what cultural or neo-Marxism is, I don’t know. Given that a central tenet of Marxist feminism was that women were oppressed through being the means of reproduction (not production), I would be interested to know. I mean, the Marxist feminist position hinges on biological differences.

That may all be a load of guff as I am tired

I don’t think that everyone who believes that gender is performed necessarily believes that it is innate and is equivalent to sex though. Not all post-modernists are gender ideologists.

Indeed, I didn’t mean to suggest that, just I think this is how the concept developed?

Yes almost certainly - a bit like the way the original concept of intersectionality has been bastardised.

Thanks for all the replies, really helpful, makes more sense now!