I'm starting to wonder if there are just too many differences between my beliefs and those of my friends

[BeyondPink]

If it were just one or two things then I'd work with it, but it seems I am constantly having to either disagree with a majority or leave things unchallenged. I'm annoyed, it's taken a lot for me to find a group I fit in with, but on some subjects I feel like I don't know them at all.

99.9% of the time I challenge, but I was already considering posting this thread the other day anyway about this, and I decided the way "around" it was to only challenge if it directly impacts my own DCs, cause I'm sick of the mental energy I am wasting on what feels like a lost cause.

The example that led to me posting today was someone saying to her son "boys can't like pink". Aren't adults supposed to know better than this?

I end up coming away from socialising feeling bloody lonely, and it's really wearing me down.

I am outspoken and opinionated (so I have been told so basically a loud gobshite).
When I read your title I thought you meant just basic disagreements about TV/fashion/chit chat - which I would always debate with my friends and colleagues until I realised I was becoming a loudmouth gobshite. I really had to shut myself up a lot.

But when I got the 'boys can't like pink' bit I was shocked - this is fundamental WhyTheFuckNot stuff for me.

Tbh if any of my friends or child's friend's parents started with that I'd want to distance myself and not bother seeing them.

Have you got any other friends nearby you can meet where the conversation isn't so mentally taxing? Are you in a town/city with groups you can attend to meet other like minded people?

"boys can't like pink"
^homophobia

I find I feel like this pretty often too. I have some old friends who live far away who I don’t see often due to distance and circumstance who I can connect with on a political level, but none really in day to day life.

I find people come out with crap like your example, which goes against pretty fundamental beliefs of mine on a regular basis. There’s a lot of ingrained misogyny being spouted on a daily basis too. I find it difficult, because when challenging, it either appears condescending, confrontational or just boring and preachy to people who want to keep the conversation “light”.

I’ve got people I’m friends with who I can have a laugh with, basic chit chat and play date based stuff... but they all seem to inevitably make comments that show me we don’t have those fundamental things in common. I don’t know what the answer is, I feel that if I wrote them all off socially based on that I would have no one to socialise with.

Well exactly, Djlippy :(

Other friends nearby is...complicated. Anyone nearby seems to have a lot of similar beliefs, even within my own extended family - I'm constantly on guard and firefighting against it. Even looking to friends further away, they are all very much on their own, it makes me wonder if the whole UK is actually like this and it's just hiding

Your friend obviously hasn't been into a clothing shop catering to young blokes recently, they're full of pink at the moment, DS3, who's 14, has a lovely new pastel pink sweatshirt, he wears it out in public and everything!

Yy bear and wiggly

My DS will refuse to wear his favourite pink pants to school on pe days, because kids have commented on them being "girls". Boxer shorts ffs.

I can tell him it's a colour and to ignore others if he likes them til I'm blue in the face, but why is this shit still coming from parents. I'd understand a bit more if it was some obscure Radfem belief, but teenage boys have been wearing pink since I was a teenager!!

(and probably much longer than that!)

The dry cleaners in the City have racks of laundered pink, blue and white shirts in polythene waiting for collection. Pink is a standard shirt colour for men.

They buy them at Thomas Pink!

www.thomaspink.com/us/category/mens/business_shirts?filters=Hierarchy_TOP_NAVIGATION_FILTER:/TOP_NAVIGATION/wc_mens_shirts/wc_mens_allshirts/wc_mens_business_shirts!MASTER_COLOUR_FILTER:Pink

my sil wanted pink at his funeral, he got it; he wasn't yet 30.

Lyn. Pink ones for your sil

Other favourites usually focus on girls like x, boys like y. Too many examples to list, but also trying not to be too outing.

Trans debate and talk of innate gender allows peoples sexism and homophobia to seem progressive. You're the bigot if you disagree. Welcome to the upside down.

I've mentioned before about the suggestion my DS was trans, DJ, when he was little more than a toddler. That came from a friend.

I'm afraid my response to that one did come under the ^"condescending, confrontational or just boring and preachy"yes subheading...

I feel like this too a lot of the time so can empathise it's really tough. I've had some friends from childhood who I care a lot for but they come out with shit like this too and it really gets to me as I'm sick of being the mouthy one with a different opinion on everything!

If you're coming away lonely whats the point of interacting, beyond what is strictly necessary, with these people? I can guarantee that you will survive lonliness and you probably will know yourself better. Its that female be nice socialisation in action isn't it?eg disagreeing with someone is unpleasant. Be yourself. Let them eat it. In the above conversation 'why not' puts the onus on them to justify such petty judgementalism and policing of sex boundaries. I see you as a thoughtful and considering person with much to offer. If they can't appreciate that others will.

As you get older, friends, or people you thought were friends, fall by the wayside. Sometimes it is a shifting of interests on one or both sides, sometimes it is fundamental belief systems or values. Sounds like the latter is happening.

It is entirely possible to make new friends. At any stage of life.

I can disagree in chitchat - I've got that one nailed

It's when it's something where I know I am right and it's related to something more...theoretical that I struggle - swinging beyond blunt statements and dead air, or zipping it and simmering. Hopefully sounding as unsmug as possible (I'm just trying to paint a scene here... 😬), I am intelligent and I know I come across as patronising when it comes to certain subjects, and since a young age I've had to hide that to an extent. So the easiest way to not cut myself off from everyone but dh (who has a very similar manner), is to avoid any situation that shows off my brain. Very AvPD!

Thanks lasqrrl, maybe it is just a shifting of priorities over time.

Maybe I need to be more proactive in meeting people who do have similar outlooks.

I empathise too. I am openly GC with non GC friends, particularly in relation to raising boys. I feel a sense of responsibility to share my insight even when it's annoying. I also come over as patronising (including on here) but I don't really mind that much. I can't not share.

You need better friends! That sort of drivel is brain damaging. I understand it's hard to meet people sometimes, but you only need one or two on your wavelength. Where might the progressive types hang out? Out of school creative activities? Library sessions? Vegetarian cafes?

I'm a midwife. Years ago a mother called me over in the post natal ward, "Sister, that woman's put her boy in a pink baby gro! " she seemed to be expecting me to make an intervention.
I said "Ooh, do you think he's a homosexual?" No further dialogue.

It's really not the sort of area that has progressive types (if they are around, they are hiding well!) in vegetarian cafes... more a working men's club, a nail bar and a bookies!

Ah well. At least I'm not alone in internetland as people here have similar experiences. Off-shore Commune time?

Sounds good to me beyond. Wmc and bookies round here as well.

I solve this problem by having few friends also the home ed groups round here are all about colours & hair cuts being for everyone etc

If I were there by myself I would have ignored the comment but with kids I would have said 'oh really we always say colours are for everyone why do you think pink isnt for boys'? (If i dont know the person saying it I roll my eyes at my kids & talk to them later)

I gave up a friend who couldn't shut up about boy v girl differences. I'm the sort of person that doesn't pipe up unless I'm asked or the thing being said is totally ridiculous. But with this person, there was no way around it. If spending time with a 'friend' becomes miserable all the time, ultimately you know that person has to go from your life.

Sorry to hear about the friends situation, OP.

Thanks terfs :)