How do I raise a son?

[Pregnantwithaboy]

And I know, I know "the same way as you raise a daughter", but that's not quite what I mean.

I am currently pregnant with a boy. My DD is 12,and amazing. I have always been confident in my ability to raise her, and I've felt comfortable as the mother of a girl. As she's got older, I've been able to share a lot with her about feminism, what she should expect from relationships, the way boys and girls are treated, why I'm gender critical (she watched the CBBC trans programme and had a lot of questions) basically an age appropriate version of Feminism Chat. I feel that, although I can't protect her forever, I know what tools to give her to help her protect herself, to stand up for herself. I will have the same discussions with any future children, that goes without saying.

I am looking forward to meeting my son. I love him already. However I am afraid that I won't be able to guide him in the same way I have my daughter. I am a youth worker,and many of the boys I work with are so angry at the world, and especially at women and girls. They talk of them in awful ways. Many of them have been viewing hardcore porn from a young age. They are addicted to their xboxes, and seem so hopeless and aimless about their futures, whilst simultaneously having a massive sense of entitlement. Some of them are from very disadvantaged backgrounds, but many aren't.

I worry that my son will fall into the same trap. I was in a very abusive relationship when I was barely out of my teens myself, and I worry that my ability to raise a son will be skewed as a result.

I am very happily married, and my husband will be a wonderful role model, as will my dad- there has never been any issues with "wife work" etc. We both work and take equal shares of everything, I am just as likely to change a tyre or chop up an old fence as my husband is to do the washing or take the children out. So I'm confident that my son will learn good lessons from that - my DD already has, and is very clear sighted when she sees the inequalities in friend's households.

I know this is all a bit garbled, but I feel I need some guidance, and after lurking on this board, I think this is the place to come for it.

I have two DSs aged 4 and seven months. I hope I'm raising them no differently to how I would DDs but have no daughters to compare to.

My older DS has a range of interests, some traditionally 'boy' like superheroes and some traditionally 'girl' like playing babies. We put a big emphasis on being kind to others and thinking about feelings. He isn't violent at all but if he was we wouldn't excuse it as 'boys will be boys'. He helps out around the house. It helps that DH works part time so is often the one doing the lions share of looking after the boys and the house. He sees DH cook, clean, make bottles, get up with the baby etc.

We talk about emotions with him. He tells us and his grandparents that he loves us. He will say when he is sad or angry or happy. He knows that when he is angry or upset he needs to tell someone rather than lash out.

Since he started preschool we have noticed a lot more comments along the lines of 'boys do x' or 'that's for girls.' We challenge these every time and explain why they are wrong.

Obviously it's still early days and the challenge of teenage years are still to come but I wouldn't worry about it OP. Your baby boy will be very much his own person.

Let him cry when he needs to cry. At all ages. It's easy at first but you may need to really protect this need for him as he gets older. Even some of his male peers at nursery will have already swallowed that boys shouldn't cry. Even some of his teachers at primary school will tell him this. Crying and talking about feelings helps process the big emotions that all children have. Anger can be the result of these emotions being buried.

My main ambition for my son is to raise him with empathy and to be comfortable with his feelings. I think if you have empathy for others that's the starting block needed to understand and appreciate different views and ideas. I also want him to feel comfortable with feelings and to understand how important they are for him and for others. My lo will cry at little disappointments and if he has a tumble and I always scoop him up in my arms and let him have a little cry. I reassure him and validate his feelings and off he goes, happy and secure. I never tell him he's been silly or ’don't cry, you're not hurt’ - I want him to experience his feelings naturally as they arise and learn what they all are and what they mean to him. I'd do the exact same with a daughter. Empathy is harder and I know he's still young but I remind him that I have feelings, daddy has feelings etc... If he pushes us away or tells us to ’go away’.

Great point from changeyPants

“Let him cry when he needs to cry. At all ages. It's easy at first but you may need to really protect this need for him as he gets older. Even some of his male peers at nursery will have already swallowed that boys shouldn't cry. Even some of his teachers at primary school will tell him this. Crying and talking about feelings helps process the big emotions that all children have. Anger can be the result of these emotions being buried”

Agree with every single word. Plus an emphasis on being kind rather than winning all the time.

Another good recent thread for on raising a boy

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3242813-raising-a-boy

Role models are the key I think. If your husband is a good, kind, loving man then you're already half way there. Talk to your son all the time, encourage him to value friendships, encourage kindness.

For what its worth my DD is far more interested in her X-Box than my DS and porn is absolutely inappropriate for any child - male or female.

I'm inclined to say "Be in charge"!
Whenever I've heard of friends being in relationships with men that turn out to be horrible, a recurrent theme seems to be "And his mum doesn't seem to think he's done anything wrong."
Now you could counter that with a) Well, she might well do, but she wouldn't tell you and b) Isn't this the whatever-it-is rule of misogyny - blaming a woman for what a man does?
That said - it's worth a go. Show him that women are capable, in control, and deserving of respect. It sounds like his sister will :)
My DS is nine months old, so I'm asking myself the same question..

Also another recent thread had interesting comments on raising children with feminist values

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3239994-How-to-raise-the-next-generation-of-feminists

I felt similar before having my boy.... was worried I wouldnt know what to do... but actually I think it comes naturally because very young children are pretty genderless to be honest... so from the beginning you can do just the same as you would for a girl. In fact its probably best to do the same as you would for a girl.
My son does tend to like traditional boy toys like building sets and cars but I make sure that he has access to traditional girls toys too so he has dolls and a dolls house and a kitchen etc.... I dont buy them in the 'boy theme' either because I dont want him to think he cant like the colour pink or that some toys are not for him because of how they are decorated.
I make sure he plays with a mixture of girls and boys (this might be harder as he gets older) His best friend at the moment is a girl.
I make sure the stories I read him have a mixture of male and female protagonists.
I dont allow any replica guns into the house although he does have some friends who have them in their houses so he does sometimes play with them but thankfully shows little interest in them beyond that.
I involve him with household stuff like helping to put the washing in the machine and he also sees and helps my husband do that too.
He comes shopping with me and my husband to do the big food shop (know mumsnet hates that and thinks you should leave kids at home with one parent but I think its really important that children see the work that goes into running a house)
I encourage imaginative play based around scenarios which work through emotions... so will play with him with his dolls and act stuff out with him... he likes to pretend to be a doctor at the moment for example... several months ago he liked to play at having a big party and cooking for all his stuffed toys over and over again lol!
I personally think that is important because I do see a lot of boys being played with in what seems to be a simply competitive and/or physical manner. I do notice that when he plays one on one with his male friends its just bashing stuff into things and running round and round. But when he plays with his female friends they will be acting out dialogue and have these very complicated role playing games on the go.
So I think maybe its important to encourage imaginative play in children that are naturally inclined to mostly physical/competitive play and vice versa??
Anyway hes only 3 so I dont have that much experience. He does seem to be developing into a kind and calm child though touch wood!

The world is difficult for men and boys as well as girls and women. So be on your ds's side so that he knows that. I know how you feel, OP, as I felt the same worries about bringing up my own ds after 2 dds.

But as long as you encourage your ds to talk about things, he can learn not to bottle up anger and fear (where so many of the worst male attitudes and behaviours come from), to have empathy, to express himself. And I can't stress enough also that you need not to stereotype him before you start - just because you know some dodgy boys/men, you need to start by believing in him as a human being, and in his potential, and he needs that unconditional love from you just as your daughters do.

I am a youth worker,and many of the boys I work with are so angry at the world, and especially at women and girls. They talk of them in awful ways. Many of them have been viewing hardcore porn from a young age. They are addicted to their xboxes, and seem so hopeless and aimless about their futures, whilst simultaneously having a massive sense of entitlement. Some of them are from very disadvantaged backgrounds, but many aren't.

The porn issue is a big influence, teaching boys to hate and despise women and damaging their ability to form healthy relationships with girls. Too many people are still stuck in the idea that porn is fun and only nasty sex negative prudes object. You have described the consequences, which are not at all fun or positive.

These kids are also a generation that have very little responsibilty in real life away from the fantasy worlds of the internet and games.

We do need a broader movement to address the harm that porn and the detachment from ordinary life is having on boy children. One or two individual parents can have influence but you can only do so much against social forces and peer pressure that push them to hate women so much.

There is not a lot you can do to stop a boy becoming a future misogynist, it really depends on their own personality as to whether they absorb it or not. I am basically saying 'it takes a village', and at the moment, most of that village is really working against you. Absolutely I applaud you for thinking about it, and trying to make a difference. But do not take it on as a personal failure if he does not turn out the way you had hoped. Feminists/lesbians of the late 70s/early 80s had this mission, these sons now being about mid-30s. There has really not been much of a cultural shift overall, sadly.

That was a really interesting point upthread about imaginative play and role-playing. I've noticed exactly the same with my 3yo; with female friends he gets involved in sometimes quite complicated games of make-believe, whereas with other boys he tends to just charge about. He enjoys both but does seem most at ease when he's in a small group of girls, especially if they're a bit older than him. Rough-and-tumble, fighting games really upset him and I do try and steer him away from this sort of play when I see him getting overwhelmed.

The sort of "boys will be boys" commentary I hear from other parents really grates on me (and I'm sure I induce a fair bit of eye-rolling at the various playgroups we go to). We live in a fairly conservative, traditional area and I'm aware that my sons are going to be exposed to ever more gender-stereotyping bullshit as they get older. I'm hoping that by nurturing their innate sweetness and allowing them to develop their interests and personalities without reference to society's gendered expectations, they'll stand a good chance of growing into decent men.

Agree with xxyzz

My boy is growing up without a father so we spend time envisaging what a lovely man and Dad he will be one day. I need him to know that he will be great even without an immediate role model because I trust in him.

Not relevant in your situation but I think it’s important to show that you have confidence in their inner loveliness rather than that you believe they are naturally not lovely and need to be corrected.

Also it’s definitely true that boys are taught to play down their feelings. And from a very young age. There’s an alpha male competition going on in my son’s class right now and he’s 8. I hate it.

I tell him all the time that he is strong because he cries and shares his feelings. I think he is taking that on.

And also I agree with a pp that life can be hard for men and our boys need just as much love and attention and support and protection to navigate this world as girls. Just protection from different things.