Trans versus natal cosmetic care on NHS

[spontaneousgiventime]

On AIBU there is a thread asking why natal woman can't get hair removal cosmetic procedures on the NHS routinely yet TIM's can. It seems that women who have PCOS would massively benefit from laser or electrolysis but only is certain areas is this possible.

I confess, I don't know enough about this, so would really appreciate any feedback people may have. Thanks.

Natal woman? Is that the new cis? Please don’t use that I find it awful.
Not surprised as trans trumps all currently.

Mrskeats I'm not keen on it either but it's the lesser of two evils when doing a description in as few words as possible.

I have PCOS but don't suffer from excess hair thankfully, although I have other significant and distressing cosmetic symptoms of PCOS that the NHS will not treat.

My experience of PCOS within the NHS is that GPs usually tell you to lose weight and send you on your way with no information or real help. I've had to swap doctors a lot of times to get diagnosed and to be prescribed medication that helps me with some of my non-cosmetic symptoms. Most doctors I've encountered honestly don't seem to care about PCOS symptoms unless they're related to your fertility, it's very frustrating.

I have a female friend who can grow a beard though and she's never been able to get hair removal on the NHS.

Thank you MustBeDreaming I can only imagine how painful and frustrating that must be.

The thread on AIBU also mentioned as a side issue the struggles women have accessing care for birth injuries and badly stitched tears etc. I had a horrendous tear with my first but the Doctor who stitched me was amazing. I wonder if women have experience of that when we know that SRS is available on the NHS. I know SRS can't be booked in a week but it's not strictly necessary yet birth injuries are. There is also the issues of breast surgery. Some women as we know suffer terribly with breast issues, such as mastectomy reconstruction after cancer and also with bad backs due to large norkage.

Are women being placed behind TIM's for this type of health care?

My sister has awful PCOS. She has tried everything, but has never got rid of the facial hair.

Our parents have spent thousands on the very best laser surgery they could find, shes still shaving daily.

The NHS have been useless, this has gone for for about 15 years and she is just repeatedly told there is nothing they can do.

I attempted to get a brest reduction when I was younger. Size 8, just over 5 foot, 28GG.

I asked twice, explained about the backpain and was laughed away. Im now on daily anti inflammitaries, prescription painkillers and having physio for my back problems.

It makes me rage Ive had so much time off work, unable to stand, yet others get 'top surgery' on request.

Thank you too Hyppolyta So it appears we are coming second when it comes to cosmetic procedures. Top surgery in both TIM's and TIF's seems to be accepted as necessary yet all the issues women have can be brushed aside. Like I said, I don't know much about this as I've never needed cosmetic care, but surely it should be either given across the board or denied to all?

I saw the other thread and tried to have a look at if I could find any information about what was available and what was not, but the only thing I could find is that it all seems to vary massively from area to area.

Interestingly (to me at least!), I did come across this case a while ago where a transwoman (backed by the Equality and Human Rights Commission) argued that transwomen should have a right to breast enhancement surgery even if women with similar size breasts would not. The Court of Appeal (IMO rightly) held that it was fair for the local NHS trust to treat them all as low priority cosmetic procedures, which in practical terms meant not funding them. It didn't matter that the transwomen wanted the surgery to pass and affirm their feminine identity etc.

Link here is case anyone is interested:
www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2011/247.html
Obviously though, the Court of Appeal just said it was lawful for the NHS trust to not prioritise transwomen over women, but there has been no case law yet saying that the NHS can't give treatments to transwomen that they would not offer to women.

Thank you so much AllyMcBeagle I know you come at this from a legal perspective so that's another interesting angle to look at.

@spontaneousgiventime - I am pretty much at the end of the funding I received through my GIC/NHS. The wording I was give. By the GIC was crap.. ‘8 sessions of laser or Electrolysis on the face and neck’. What it actually equates to is £1,500 which only approved NHS providers can tap in to. There is a range they can charge so that affects what you get out of it but I think with the provider I went with it worked out at about 30 hours of electrolysis.

As an aside, I am likely going to need another 35 hours at least to totally clear my facial hair. Optimistically..

@Hyppolyta - I had an awful lot of laser even before I got my NHS funding, one thing I found was that 16 weeks after my last laser session my face was actually hairier. Even though I was getting my electrolysis at this point, if felt like I wasn’t making progress but basically the laser treatments had stimulated nearby dormant follicles to start growing hair!

I am sure your sister (and yourself) are aware but I just thought it might be worth mentioning?

My understanding was that top surgery was only covered for trans men? It is seen as purely cosmetic for trans women? Maybe different GIC belonging to different trusts have slightly different rules..

Also if trans women can get such a large pot of money to be able to do this.. I do find it ridiculous that women with PCOS are unable to receive similar funding..

I’m sorry if you think I’m being the trans women with a megaphone, just a couple things sprang to mind.

No we need transwoman to explain, otherwise were just speculating.

My sister had the first go several years ago, then again about 2/3 years ago and sadly neither has cleared it, I hope yours is more succesful!

So is laser surgery routinely refused to women, or is it dependant on your area/ having a willing doctor?

Ive posted on the aibu thread. i have coarse black chin hairs which appeared when i turned 40 Nothing on my chin until 5 years ago.

But some hairs on my upper lip which have been there since childhood so ive adjusted.

Women with PCOS though should absolutely at least be offered treatment on the NHS.

The "should i shave" thread in AIBU Now THATS a depressing read.

I somehow doubt that any of these interventions are available to trans women 'on demand', if at all. I hope we hear from some.

Anyone to whom a physical condition is causing psychological misery should receive treatment imo

I’m suspicious about the claim that Trans women routinely get treatment for facial hair removal on the NHS.

Is there a link to information on this?

@merrymouse - it is standard treatment that if requested, once the trans person is in the GIC pathway (that is if they are deemed to have gender dysphoria at the first consultation) the trans person is then entered in to a waiting list. In my case, in August (it probably varies geographically) and received a letter in November saying the funding was now available for me to use.

If anyone would be interested I might still have the letters and info, I can scan or photograph them and post for people to see? Will just need some time to redact personal info out.

Here is the thread on AIBU if anyone wants to read it.

natluc do you have a link to this policy?

I'd be really interested in that NatLuc.

It was eight sessions of electrolysis for me, my practitioner extended each one to two hours to help me get the most from them.

I'd already self funded a substantial amount of hair removal before hand (IPL) and paid for a lot more afterwards to finally clear my beard.

Funding for hair removal comes from a special pot set aside for gender services, so doesn't go through your local CCG.

It's always bothered me that the same minimal amount of hair removal has never been made available to those with PCOS. It could be requested as an Individual Funding Request (IFR), but given how hard up the CCGs are at the moment it's unlikely to get approved.

The NHS Interim Gender Dysphoria Protocol and Service Guidelines 2013/14 (it's a bit of a mouthful). To the best of my knowledge these haven't been updated, but are 'under review'.

www.england.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/int-gend-proto.pdf

Thank you for commenting further.. I have just spent an hour going through paperwork trying to find the paperwork I have regarding it lol.

The link that @Bronners78 posted is far better than the info I received. I got a massively cut down version..

But 8 x 2 hour electrolysis sessions?? There is such a disparity in what the ‘approved providers’ can charge.. I also had significant amounts of laser before hand (£2500 worth of facial and body paid through finance and savings) and whilst my facial hair stopped responding to laser, my body hair was much more receptive. Basically gone.

Also as others have stated in the AIBU thread.. electrolysis is the only permanent method of hair removal. It might look like the same hair is coming back but because hairs grow in waves it is likely to be a close neighbour follicle rather than the previously zapped hair. Generally I find the hairs that do survive electrolysis will often come back but then they break the surface again and then they just sort of.. give up.

PCOS is a medical condition so clearly associated cosmetic treatments should be funded. Given the dismissive attitude towards things like endo that cause massive ongoing pain though I'm not exactly holding my breath.

@NatLuc beauty of being in the NHS, you get bombarded with policies 😂

Thanks for the info. I stand corrected. From that link:

“This is an essential treatment for MtF patients. Removal of facial hair relates directly to confidence and safety whilst undertaking the RLE. Electrolysis, laser and Intense Pulse Light (IPL) treatment may be used.”

Agree, logically it should follow that electrolysis should also be provided for women who suffer from excessive hair growth because of conditions like PCOS.

Yes, I agree, it doesn’t make sense that

Oops - edit fail with that last sentence...