Why has the trans lobby been so successful?

[feesh]

. Have been following the discussions on here over the last few months.

I never really identified with feminism before, so it’s been quite eye opening.

The thing I don’t understand is why the trans campaign has been SO successful. We have barely acheived gay rights, yet the trans lobby has had massive gains in only a few short months of campaigning. They have had victories that other campaigns can only dream of.

Part of the reason for me dwelling on this is that I’ve been working in conservation and environmental management for years and we have barely made any headway into changing hearts and minds, yet the realities of what we are facing with environmental destruction are even scarier than the erosion of women’s rights, but nobody ever seems to get outraged about it (apart from the plastics issue, about which I think the tide is finally turning).

Who is behind the trans lobby? Where does all this power and money come from?

Oh, they also piggybacked off the success of the gay rights movement.

That one baffles me though tbh, given how blatantly homophobic the trans agenda actually is. How can people think that its anything like supporting gay rights?!

Stonewall has a lot to answer for tbh. Though they don't seem to be for homosexual people anymore anyway, given they refuse to even define being gay as same sex attraction

Trans ACTIVIST agenda that should be. There is generally a world of difference between transsexual people and transactivists.

as a PP said it started a few years ago, trans media groups approached tv company's to help them portray trans better (nothing wrong with that) but have been gaining influence and snowballing since.

at the same time the umbrella term for trans came in, meaning transexuals, transvestites and others were all to be referred to as trans gender. most people think of trans gender as transexuals who are battling themselves and hate their bodies. So many people have sympathy instantly for someone struggling.

Also somewhere on these boards, links have been traced to very very rich men/Trans funding it.

Also on another level lots of misinformation, about science and gender floods social media, some stuffs just made up, other stuff is misinterpreted and twisted on purpose. But the people saying it say it with authority in their tone.

there is a transsexual scientist who blows all myths that come up about research into lady brain out the water.

They did come to Mumsnet once but unfortunately they also believed in transitioning teens, which obviously didn't go down well here, they soon left.

TRA have been very well organised on lots of different levels, with plenty of money to play with, it may seem like only the past few months, but its been years coming.

A combination of reasons.

It directly affects women most (and adversely)
How things changed in the USA. (And how this was weaponised by the Trump election campaign).
Social media and the experience of TRAs. There is a high percentage of gamers/computer geeks involved in the movement with a particular skill set.
Highly organised and motived community which works through social media.
A high number of activists who for a variety of reasons, don't have jobs (that survey figure if 50% having a disability is significant and important in this context.)
A group with few social responsibilities which makes it easier to lobby (no kids).
Increased student involvement in left wing politics both here and abroad. It is particularly driven by privileged students with ability and time (and no kids).
A desire in the uk for the conservative party to look progressive and to appeal to young people.
Celebritification of trans as an issue with trans super stars both on tv and YouTube

As of right now, the government has still not formally responded to the results of the survey or proposed any draft legislation, claiming that due to the scale of the response that it would take some time to get through them.

This isn't happening this parliamentary session (before next summer). There is this little thing called 'brexit' which is meaning a substantial amount of 'non essential' issues are being kicked into the long grass out of a lack of time for government to action anything, a lack of civil service resources and MPs being distracted by more pressing issues. It is still low priority in political terms to the political elite. This might change if there is a scandal or it benefits the government in election terms. It was still pretty low in last week's priorities.

Ironically we WANT it to hit parliament before a GE and the potential of Labour getting in. It will kill the political desire to go near the subject again for 5/10 years regardless of who is in charge. The current government are much more likely to be cautious of the issue than Labour.

I think it is because of the co-morbidity with NPD.

The key TRAs don't have a conscience to deal with - so they can keep relentlessly ploughing forward, obsessive about getting their own way, whatever the cost. Winning is all that matters and quashing all mention of the harms is part of that.

Also the grandiosity - NPDs feel in their element in champagne soirees, hob-nobbing with politicians and philanthropists, talking bollocks.

Normal people are nice and give them the benefit of the doubt - eases the path for them nicely.

I agree with both the last two posts, and many others. Good thread.

The change and subversion of language has been a key part of how it's taken hold so quickly and the internet makes this really easy to do.

I was reading a wiki entry for a woman earlier and it stated identifies as a lesbian, later on it went on to say this woman also identifies as a feminist (and a couple of other political things I can't remember).

So in a few short years we've gone from the strongly promoted message that some people just are gay (born this way) to it being something you identify as, which is very reminiscent of the 'gay is a lifestyle' choice that used to be thrown around by opponents of the LGB.

I believe it's been reframed this way to legitimise males who identify as lesbians and particularly those who are late transitioners. It's difficult to justify a late transitioning, husband and father of kids without implying sexual orientation can be an identity of choice.

I think the powers that be approve of it, because it is such an outrageous ideology that if you can impose it on the general populace you can impose anything.

As it primarily affects women, you can sneak it in without much opposition. but basically if you can make it a hate-crime to state bleedin obvious (if you have a penis you are male) then you can make anything a hate crime. You can actually control public discourse. You can make people so confused and doubtful of their own perceptions, that they are afraid to speak out because they have been made to feel like their own perceptions are invalid.

Gaslighting the whole population, is what the establishment do all the time. This is just the latest form of it. It makes people afraid to speak, because they have no idea what the latest bleedin obvious thing they've always known, is now considered terrible bigotry.

YY as George Orwell conveyed so well in 1984.

Cocker spaniel : bang on the nose

Wish wanted to know some of the key players financially backing this, this is a US-based list, but you can see there are some well-heeled backers. If I find the other list, there was someone who put together the funding, some of it 'behind the scenes', also an interesting list.

And yes, they did piggyback onto the LGB, now the cracks are beginning to show with TRAs and their supporters kicking drag queens out of pride parades - next will be lesbians, them and their 'penisphobic' ways - they must be penisphobic, not understanding the attraction of the 'ladypenis' on offer! In all seriousness though, one by one, every other group will be chucked out of the LGBT, with only the T remaining. A sign of T's 'inclusiveness'.

The rightwing have been fine with the destabilisation of feminism/women throughout the last 20 or so years, up until the T started getting a bit predatory with RW-dudes' 'female property', so a bit of a pushback on that front in recent years. Basically all this has kept feminists too busy to go after the real male power base, so overall, the RW dudes have been ok with trans.

Most of the trans support has been based from the left, all the woke bros. A bit of help from rubbish like the word-salad of postmodernism, and of course women's studies being replaced by 'gender studies'.

It has been a simmering pot for a couple of decades now (a generation), but now it has come to the boil, and suddenly more people are noticing. It is not out of the blue, some radfems have been pointing out the issues for all or most of that time, but no one really listened, strangely enough.

I would also add that there is a lot of misogyny at the root of male support for trans rights. A lot of men can't imagine anything more awful than actually wanting to be a woman so they have enormous pity for men who do.

Money, excessive male entitlement plus co-moridity with NPD/Psychopathic traits - low to conscience, empathy and remorse. They have prodigious work output as they have no feelings to get in the way (despite them crying wolf/victim status).

These are the alpha apes, the extreme MRA/TRAs who want to see women erased, and if not, then back in their place underneath their heel.

These types know all the dirty tricks, know how to rouse a mob, are skilled in tech often and have the media owners in their ranks. They get off at others distress and they use and abuse others (cult leaders et al). These dominators are the problem, not us norms.

"nobody questions Gay rights any more and most are accepting"

The difference is that gay people wanted an end to discrimination and just to be allowed to love the person they wanted to love.

Gays never claimed to be something they are not.

Gays never demanded the public to agree with their delusion.

Gays never pushed for children uncomfortable in their skin who question gender roles to be put on hormones and rendered sterile.

Gay males never physically attacked women or threatened with gruesome deaths at their hand.

Gay males never shut down women's events.

Gay males never took women's positions in political parties, coveted scholarships, or on the podium in sports competitions.

Gays and trans movements are nothing alike, especially re women.

Fascinating article, LaSqrrl. Thanks for the link

thefederalist.com/2018/02/20/rich-white-men-institutionalizing-transgender-ideology/

I found these suggestions particularly chilling:

the money invested by the men mentioned above, governments, and technology and pharmaceutical corporations to institutionalize and normalize transgenderism as a lifestyle choice.

Martine Rothblatt suggests we are all transhuman, that changing our bodies by removing healthy tissue and organs and ingesting cross-sex hormones over the course of a lifetime can be likened to wearing make-up, dying our hair, or getting a tattoo. If we are all transhuman, expressing that could be a never-ending saga of body-related consumerism.

As you read, remember, transitioning individuals are medical patients for life

Because stonewall etc are, like many large charitable institutions, are an organisation whose principal priority is to sustain itself.

After the brilliant success, and quite rightly so, of achieving equality of marriage for gay and lesbians, there were looking towards massive hole in their funding stream. Objection achieved, donations dry up.

Trans rights looked like a brilliant replacement cause. There was a brilliant pitch, all middle class folk (men) being unfairly oppressed by old fashioned notions of what is sartorially appropriate dress and rights to use the loo of their choice.

The idea of the "oppressed trans" was marketed brilliantly. The concept directly appealed to those who were likely to donate.

Only we were all sold a squib. Especially the poor kids who have bought into the ideology of surgically and chemically reinforcing gender stereotypes, to the detriment of their physical and mental health.

I've done some environmental campaigning in the past. The parallels with this seem to me that the promoter's success depends on everyone else hearing only their narrative. They've done well because they have access to power (thanks to virtue signalling politicians) and because of a general lack of understanding of the issues, which is in their interests to uphold. The fact that it's incredibly complicated and most politicians have short attention spans is to the TRAs benefit.

The campaign I was involved in was incredibly divisive locally and I when I first heard about it all myself and was "wtf!?" I was told that 98% of people supported the plans and that I would be wise not to rock the boat. It was nerve-wracking going out onto the street to promote alternatives and discuss the issues but we found that when people were presented with a fuller picture of evidence and the issues, not just the glossy pictures and the promoter's utopian vision, there was actually a lot of opposition - and as many people again who were more cautious than they were before.

I only found out about the clash between the rights being demanded by TRAs and women's rights fairly recently and can see that it's been a long and ongoing battle over the years but it looks like it has been effectively suppressed because it's been cleverly concealed as a fringe issue (as a battle between RadFems and TRAs). The only way the TRAs will succeed is if they can continue to control the narrative that way. That is why having these discussions publically on Mumsnet, journalists like Janice Turner and James Kirkup, Hadley Freeman, and the various other groups and campaigns that are springing up, like WPUK, #sexmatters, #manfriday etc. are so important. I can't remember which poster it is on here, but someone regularly says words the effect that, "sunlight is the best disinfectant." There's great truth in that. And it's happening.

for all the feminists who've been up against this while the rest of us were sleeping.

I think there needs to be some unity on this one, I’m obviously not a natural friend to feminists but this self-id nonsense is appalling and very very dangerous.

I hope there is some way of pulling together on this.

I don't assume that a lot of it comes from malicious intent. Indeed quite the opposite. It is facilitated by a dream of utopia and good intent. It is born of individuals who have been largely sheltered from forces which don't have good intent. It is no coincidence that the majority of support comes from well meaning over privileged white middle class kids. Its this naivety that is being actively exploited by a small number of individuals. We have a generation of very innocent young adults. That's a good thing. And yet its also a massive vulnerability to society too. These young people can see injustice and they are aware of inequality acutely because of the housing issues. But they are perhaps unaware themselves of how they personally might be exploited because of that. They believe because they are educated they are immune to it somehow. Which isn't true.

I know that parallels with extremism and grooming crop up on this topic. I believe it not just kids who identify as trans who are caught up in that. I think its not just about trans issues either. Its much more broad. But its definitely exploitative.

I've just done a bit of a long rambling post about medical ethics on the 'state your views on the trans issue' thread which kind of dovetails with my thinking here.

Its about how current generations have forgotten about the importance of frameworks that protect and the principles these were built on. In part because they are out of touch with those who need them most.

I hope there is some way of pulling together on this.

Here are some suggestions:

Perhaps you could speak out against the MGTOW movement who recommend men identifying as women to mess up quotas which are put in place to make leadership positions for women more commonplace.

Perhaps you could speak out against all the incels who use anime porn, fantasise about themselves as 'dickgirls' and want to erase all women's private and safe spaces so that they can pursue their obsessive unhealthy fantasies around the women who don't want them near.

Perhaps you could speak out against the militant thugs who get kicks out of bullying and intimidating people, for whom harassing women trying to discuss these issues is a perfect excuse.

Well I do challenge MGTOWs for men who want to have nothing to do with women they do an awful lot of bellyaching about them. If they want to bugger off and become monks they can do so. Problem solved!

The incel thing is a relatively new one on me. I’m older and it doesn’t seem quite so commonplace in my demographic, I don’t actually know or have come across any of them, but I’ll be sure to pass your comments on if I do!

I will always oppose the initiation of the use of force and promotion of free speech wether I agree with it or not.

MRAs have adopted the TRA agenda to try to squash feminists.

It is rare to hear from open MRA's now they seem to mainly claim to be trans and do a lot of online stirring between the TRAs and feminists.

Has it got out of hand?

Out of interest- as an MRA, what sort of problems do you have with transgenderism? Is it the fact that some females identify as males?

I think there needs to be some unity on this one, I’m obviously not a natural friend to feminists but this self-id nonsense is appalling and very very dangerous.

It really is...but I am interested on what grounds you think it is dangerous? What common ground do we have here?

I posted this on the other thread, but I think it probably fits better here. There is seriously big money behind the trans movement, that also helps.