Single question trans issue thread...

[MillicentF]

What rights do trans people not have at the moment that they should have?

I'd be interested to know too MillicentF...although I strongly suspect that when TRAs talk about this they mean wanting the rights accrued to females on account of their sex and which they as male bodied individuals don't have a right to...

I have asked this so many times. I've never had an answer

Placemarking in case an answer is finally posted

Isn't there a manifesto somewhere? I seem to remember they want the right to free medical training so they can all perform GR surgery on each other

And of course the right to tell women what to do.

Action for Trans Health

edinburghath.tumblr.com/post/163521055802/trans-health-manifesto

That's it Ereshkigal. Thank you. The very definition of "batshit"

Errrrrr................ errrr.............. well then, that all sounds achieveable and reasonable. 😂😂😂😂😂

That manifesto is terrifyingly deranged. There is, however, one objective with which I agree:

We demand an end to birth certificates and to legal gender.
I also think legal gender is silly- it should be biological sex instead.

Whoever wrote the manifesto clearly has a sense of humour. They saved the best 'till last:

We demand immediate release & pardon for all trans prisoners.
That'll be Ian Hunley released then, amongst a number of other predators.

Whoever wrote the manifesto clearly has a sense of humour. They saved the best 'till last:

We demand immediate release & pardon for all trans prisoners.
That'll be Ian Hunley released then, amongst a number of other predators.

Indeed.

Vaggie - love your NN. Hate Vegemite though. Such conflicted feelings...

Rights aren't a nebulous thing, they're specific and no Human Rights are being denied. No legal rights are different for trans people than for anyone else (absolutely as it should be). The only one I can really see is the right to be recognised in all contexts as whatever an individual chooses to self declare as, and full entitlement to the resources set aside for that group': ie self identification with access to all remaining sex based resources for women. This is not an existing legal right for any group in the UK so hardly an 'equal' right being sought, and big questions have to be asked:

• Should laws ever be based on subjective individual feelings instead of objective fact? Is that a good thing? Is that what law is intended for?
• Standard tests of law: Will there be a disproportionate impact on any particular groups in society? How will this law be enforced? What time and resources will need to be allocated to its enforcement and is that proportionate to what the law is intended to achieve?
• Is a law that compels people against their will to state and service a belief they do not hold or which is against their conscience a good thing? (Heresy law comes to mind). How does this affect the human rights of those people?
• Law operates in precedent. What precedents might this set? What other beliefs, religious or otherwise, may be mandated for all to enact based on the acceptance of this one? If it is legal for someone to self identify their sex and receive all benefits and resources gate kept for that sex, then for the able bodied who self identify as disabled (known as trans disabled) can they equally claim benefits, carers, provision of hoists and wheelchairs? Guidedogs?What about adults who part or full time identify as a child? Should an adult be entitled to access any and all provisions for children of the age they identify as?
• When adult sexualities and paraphilias form part of the choice of self identity as it does for some, (for example cross dressing, which under Stonewall's definition counts as trans, men with autogynephilia, adults who enjoy age play in their sex life) where are the boundaries? Will this right of access be extended without gatekeeping? Will there be boundaries for appropriacy in public places, and how are the rights of others not to be unwittingly or unwillingly used as props or participators in other people's sexual experiences to be considered? Can this reasonably and practically be enforced in daily life?

I'm sure legal bods could think of many more things to be considered.

We demand resources for hair removal anywhere on our bodies, and the option of local anesthetic during these procedures.

Can I demand this as well? My first ever epilators just arrived and I've just been hovering it above my leg for a good 30 minutes, screaming and removing it again.

if self id goes through - we should all start identifying as pregnant women (only need a fake bump - no different to much of the gender fakery that goes one :) and thus at the end of nine months claim our full maternity allowance, and repeat!!

What rights do trans people not have at the moment that they should have?

The rights that have been taken away by the TRAs.

The right to mental health treatment on a long term basis with no push for medicalisation.

The right for my child to change separately at school and not be strong armed into changing in the room of the gender they identify as.

The right to live with a hairstyle and name of choice without it having to lead somewhere.

The right to make choices without being pushed into making the school look good with their box ticking inclusive policies.

buzz makes a valid point.

1. The affirmative/medical route does not serve children well.
2. Removal of dysphoria as a diagnosis will leave the patients who actually need treatment the most, without that treatment.

The final point segues into the narrow shitty gender boxes all kids need to fit into these days and frankly the sooner those narrow stereotypes are dead and buried the better - for ALL kids (and adults.)

I suspect the free all trans prisoners has been inspired from gay rights. But the difference is people were imprisoned for being gay, no one has been for being trans. But it sounds good.

Yeah I think the free all prisoners is a non-starter really...
I don’t think they lack rights at present as the law complies with the ECHR. I know some of them want a simplified procedure for obtaining a GRC but that some others do not.
I can’t see that the law can go much further than that. Getting rid of sex-based exemptions under the Equality Act can never be an option and trans people will have to accept that there are some necessary limits to their status.

Bloody hell! I couldn't read that manifesto.

He's certainly confident, isn't he?

To my mind the single biggest thing society could do to help people who have genuine issues with gender is to widen gender stereotypes. We were getting there as well - the 80-90s seemed to be much freer for expressing yourself via hair and clothing and makeup however you wanted, whether you were straight or gay. There seemed to be much wider limits to what a straight teen could wear.
Now we seem to have narrowed those stereotypes to a ridiculous degree. All the teenage girls I see have he same look - very girly, long hair, same makeup.
When you add in the pornified sexually toxic environment we have, I’m not at all surprised kids entering puberty want to reject it all.

The way back is to help kids grow to adulthood in a world where there are many many ways to ‘be a girl’ or a boy. Not one specific look/way of dressing/acting.

Widening those gender stereotypes would help society a lot imo.

What we don’t need is aggressive medicalisation of children, or aggressive TRA/MRA males removing sex based protections for women.

Trans people are already protected by law as they should be.

They are anarchists.

The Action for Trans Health demands are eye popping.

And this is the organisation the Oxford students trying to shut down the @WomansPlaceUK meeting suggested people supported instead!!!

Nobody takes the Action For Trans Health thing isn’t taken seriously by anybody is it? Isn’t it just a trans SCUM manifesto?

Should they be inviting them to consult with the government on policies which affect everyone then?

They openly supported violence against women after speakers corner. They tell us how batshit they are in that document. Why wouldn't we take them at their word?