Local Election Results

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Sooo...how do you all feel about them? It's very much a mixed bag. Personally, I am happy to see UKIP take a nose-dive (it was inevitable), but the rest is rather "bitty." Not very happy to see Labour taking Plymouth, but then again, it's a large student population. I wonder how many voted Labour on the basis they supported the women's shortlist changes/"transwomen are women" slant.

Thoughts?

Good spectator article

Its not just issues, thpugh obviously thet matter, but the hate and nastiness.

I have no problems with people being Jewish, Muslim, Momentum, Brexit, Conservative or transgender.

But I do have a problem with people who wont allow me my voice, or who will try to no-platform people legally articulating views in a reasonable fashion within a democracy.

My local council is staunchly Labour and they've held.

Turnout was an average of 29.76%, going as high as 38% and as low as 18%

As expected really.

Ballots not counted numbered 228

The wards that labour gained in Plymouth - Ham, Honicknowle, Peverell - none of these are studenty areas. I doubt that self ID was much of a consideration.

I was disappointed to read that Chris Paul was elected - I don't think he should have even been standing.

But I do have a problem with people who wont allow me my voice, or who will try to no-platform people legally articulating views in a reasonable fashion within a democracy.

Exactly. Lots of people I know are put off by the Bromentum vibe and the 'right side of history screw you if you disagree nazi' vibe. Owen Jones campaigning did the party no favours among non-cult members imo.

Scoffing at women who want to send their daughters to guides without a policy allowing covert and sanctioned mixed sex sleeping/showering is not the mastercard to win the home of nappy valley that's for sure.

Political trends tell us that Labour should have smashed the last GE and yesterday’s LE, as the current opposition party, people will look back and think how on earth did Labour not get voted in - the Tories have made some unpopular decisions, and the general public are now firmly feeling the pinch of austerity cuts. Combine that with Brexit uncertainty, and with recent tragedies, eg Grenfell, and with political injustices eg Windrush then Labour needs to ask why it hasnt had landslide victories.

Unless there is a change of leadership, and a commitment to eradicating ALL racism and misogyny then Labour won’t be getting anywhere near ousting the Tories at the next GE.

(Disclaimer: I’m not a Labour voter)

Given how weak the Conservatives are at the moment I think it reflects very badly on Labour

Traditionally the ruling party is supposed to get a sound kicking at this point. There is no way Labour can put a positive spin on this.

All I would say to Labour is keep it up and hopefully the Tories will remain in power at the next election. Corbyn seems to be doing exactly what the Tories need. I have always thought he was one of the Conservatives' biggest assets.
My borough had over 40% voting which is quite good for a local election. We go to and fro Labour Tory and we stayed Labour this time which is not surprising given local demographics but probably accounts for the massive pot holes and 3200 a year council tax I pay sadly. (my own ward is Tory)

Anyway let us see who gets in at teh general election.

I think Labour under Corbyn have reached their ceiling. There are just far too many centrist voters who can't bear to vote for a party led by someone they perceive as far left. Self-ID has probably made a very limited difference to the overall number of Labour votes, but reflects a wider problem with Corbyn's Labour (perceived by many as aggressively right on and uninterested in the realities of people's lives).

Agree Irene the way Labour have handled Self-ID is symptomatic of the wider attitude of Labour/momentum. It isn't yet as visible as other issues such as anti-semitism but awareness is growing and it isn't going to go away. Labour's heartland voters won't want penises in their daughter's changing rooms so Corbyn and friends might want to find a good electable answer to that one at some point. Hint; "I just look at the person in front of me and see how they want to express themselves" is not it.

I also wouldn't underestimate the number of female foot soldiers they lost through resignations recently including. That lost labour and passion will have been a blow. Nor the amount this matters to people who see what's going on, and how word spreads.

There are just far too many centrist voters who can't bear to vote for a party led by someone they perceive as far left. Self-ID has probably made a very limited difference to the overall number of Labour votes

Self-ID had no bearing on my resigning my membership.

Wander I've described the AWS issue as the canary in the coal mine for the wider problem of authoritarianism on the left. Ditto the cult of the dear leader. I think we see the same thing with the revolting antisemitism - the knee jerk reaction seems to be "you're being disloyal to St. Corbyn for even raising the issue, we must deselect you forthwith."

I can't vote for a Labour party that has this Stalinist "my leader, right or wrong" attitude, and show trials, and #nodebate.

Fermats - that's a great way of putting it. I agree

At the same time, at the moment (Universal Credit, the rape clause, attacks on disability benefits) I can't actually bring myself to vote Tory. But I do sometimes contrast the antisemitic misogynist Bromentum types with the Tories (woman PM, large number of MPs from ethnic minorities including those on the front bench) and wonder what would I would think if the Tory party ditched their screw-the-poor faction and went for a more centrist fiscally conservative but socially liberal stance with a strong commitment to freedom of speech.

Talking of OJ's less than stellar electioneering in London, I haven't seen his response anywhere to concerns raised about him supporting a known extremist as a candidate in Westminster...

what would I would think if the Tory party ditched their screw-the-poor faction and went for a more centrist fiscally conservative but socially liberal stance with a strong commitment to freedom of speech

I'd think that Ken Clarke had become party leader

wonder what would I would think if the Tory party ditched their screw-the-poor faction and went for a more centrist fiscally conservative but socially liberal stance with a strong commitment to freedom of speech

Guaranteed permanently in government?

They need more Anna Soubrys and Ken Clarkes

I've described the AWS issue as the canary in the coal mine for the wider problem of authoritarianism on the left.

Yes. I agree with this very much. There are better ways to fight for social justice than reaching for authoritarian measures and an authoritarian cultural environment every single time.

It's terrible for women at the moment - vote Tory and get hammered economically; vote Labour and get hammered socially. Catch-22.

@LassWiADelicateAir

Socially liberal has got us to self Id and people not being tackled of sexual abuse less we offend them

Sometimes it’s prudent to be socially conservative being to liberal ends up with people being thrown under the bus

I've described the AWS issue as the canary in the coal mine for the wider problem of authoritarianism on the left.

Yes Fernats totally agree. It has terrified me watching what has gone on in party politics in the name of AWS and self-ID.

Not just Labour either. The bit where the man in the dress persuaded the young Green Party women to be called 'non-men' so as not to offend. That was a big clue right that something wasn't going the right way for women.

Fermats sorry

1. One of their candidates was transgender.
2. What was twitter.
3. He was married to a woman.

Awww Needmoresleep, did you actually feel the 'pat pat' of condescension on your 'pretty little head', and 'not to worry' he is pro-woman, don't you know he enslaved is married to one?

I can't speak for Lass but I'm using liberal in the classic sense of balancing rights, with an emphasis on individual freedom (Mill's positive and negative liberties, sometimes paraphrased as "your right to swing your fist ends where my nose begins").

I'm not using it in the bastardised sense adopted by social justice warriors to mean unquestioning enthusiasm for the trendy cause du jour.

But as a Mill/Rawls type of liberal I'm absolutely committed to letting other people get on with doing their own thing so long as it doesn't mess up other people's lives. (Though I do have a tendency towards rule utilitarianism, hence for instance I'd advocate the Nordic model for decriminalising the sale of sex while criminalising its purchase, because overall I think this minimises harm - in this respect I'm a liberal rather than a libertarian)

FermatsTheorem

I can't speak for Lass but I'm using liberal in the classic sense of balancing rights, with an emphasis on individual freedom (Mill's positive and negative liberties, sometimes paraphrased as "your right to swing your fist ends where my nose begins")

I'm not using it in the bastardised sense adopted by social justice warriors to mean unquestioning enthusiasm for the trendy cause du jour

Yes , I agree with that. Jordan Peterson is not universally liked on here but he describes himself as a classic British liberal; Blaire White is generally not liked at all and describes herself as right wing but is far more liberal than the average social justice warrior- such is the bizarre state of politics these days.

Alan Johnstone and Anna Soubry were on Andrew Neil's show a few weeks ago. You couldn't have put a cigarette paper between what they were saying.

LaSqrrl, rightly or wrongly it was me who thought 'ah bless'. He was well into his 80s. Experience is that it is worth mentioning local problems: potholes; pigeons nesting under bridges, etc, to LibDem campaigners as tgey do follow up. I thought I would give him something more meaty to consider.