Don't get me wrong, I'm sex positive!

[ALittleBitOfButter]

I just saw someone post the above comment (or an approximation of it) on a thread. I've been feeling increasingly annoyed about this phrase and would like to interrogate it with FWR.

In my opinion 'sex positive' is similar to 'intersectional feminist' in that no one actually disagrees with the general sentiment. Is that right?

It just means you like sex yeah? So pro porn and pro capitalist people are always labelling any criticism of porn as 'you're being sex negative'. You therefore have to shut up or you get drawn into an argument where you get told if you are against sex work you're racist etc.

So can I have a definition of 'sex negative' please? Given I don't like to glory in porn and the so called empowering nature of the sex trade.

I am feeling VERY sex negative, to be honest. Losing my libido on Prozac has been great and given me a much clearer view of the world. It's also stopped me breaking my heart over stupid men.

And I wear much more comfortable underwear

Isn't it a comment about moral judgement? So to be sex negative is to hold moral-based opinions on sex that are restrictive/negative. But I could be totally wrong!

Women need to learn to speak without feeling like we must justify ourselves with these types of qualifying statements. They are a submissive display of placating behaviour.

'Sex positive' means 'positive about sexual abuse, violence and exploitation'... Nice re-brand.

So the name for people who aren't positive about that ... mmm...

'respect-positive'
'equality-positive'
'affection-positive'
'boundary-positive'
'responsibility-positive'

'abuse-negative'

Sex positive should mean you don't do slut shaming and you support sex work and sex outside of marriage etc

Sex negative should therefore mean you shame women for having consensual sex and want to ban sex work and sex should only be for procreation.

What about sex trafficking Ophelia do you see that as sex positive or sex negative?

I hope they come up with the euthanasia chambers soon, I'm getting too old and fed up for all this.

'Sex positive' can go in the same basket as 'groovy' as a fad without meaning much, and I don't think what I'm told I 'should' as I'm an adult.

Sex trafficking is abuse.
Sex work is pretty much abuse too but "sex positivity" always has to frame it as a glorious choice.

Ah sorry Ophelia I thought you were defining it as how you saw things.

And the thing about "slut shaming" is that sex positive types always say "yeah wear your skirts short", then they side with the rapist when she's raped and say "Yep. Skirt was too short and she had a Bacardi. She led him on".

Sex positive seems to consist of 'woke' women saying they are ok with all manner of sexual practices / behaviour including all porn, prostitution or 'sexwork', BDSM and other 'creative' sex.

Sex negative, presumably, would be to criticise any facet of the above behaviours.

I think it's the modern day equivalent of being called 'frigid'

I associate ‘sex positivity’ with feminists like Betty Dodson. It started in the sixties or seventies. Originally the idea was that female sexuality should be celebrated, that women should enjoy sex. It was to counteract the patriarchal idea that sex is for men and that women have a duty to have sex. Instead, it should be mutually enjoyable. It’s also about body positivity and not feeling shame for having sexual desire.
Betty Dodson has her own website. She also runs a business organising orgasm workshops!
She’s an interesting lady and the website has a lot of positive stuff on it. BUT there are very few references to porn and prostitution. The articles on there about it only look at it positively. It completely ignores sex trafficking and anything else negative. That’s a problem for me.
I think it’s a shame that sex positivity is conflated with ‘sex work positive’, as the original idea behind the sex positive movement was about liberating women.

That all sounds great Nuff but all the reason interpretations of it I have seen have been libfem endorsements of sexworkers, slutwalks and hardcore porn as being liberating for women.

I'm all for good sex. Consensual, good sex. (please, spare me any happy hooker replies)

Always hated the term "sex positive". It sets up a false dichotomy from the outset.

For 'sex-positivity' to have any worth as a feminist idea, then it has to challenge all incidences of women being viewed as a set of orifices to be used and abused for the pleasure of men because female sexuality cannot exist or be expressed in such a passive, obedient, subjugated state, entirely on men's terms, according to the male gaze.

Therefore you cannot be positive about female sexual expression and liberation and not be critical of prostitution, porn and sexual abuse at the same time.

Otherwise you are the proverbial person with a mind so open your brain falls out.

I'm sexism-negative

I'm bullshitophobic. It brings me out in hives.

Isn't it a comment about moral judgement? So to be sex negative is to hold moral-based opinions on sex that are restrictive/ negative?

Or having boundaries. Or being called frigid/ prude/ lesbian.

It sets up a false dichotomy from the outset.

Indeed - a very useful one for the sex industry profiteers and lobbyists....

What does feminism critique? Male dominance of the female sex. Including controlling by sexual abuse and sexual exploitation.

What do all the pimps/etc who started to get a bit of social acceptance respect (eg Hefner) do, when they fear their reputations and profits might be damaged by feminist critique?

Step 1: Slander all critical feminists as 'anti-sex' for criticising sexism, sexual abuse and sexual exploitation.

Step 2: Co-opt feminism and call yourselves 'sex-positive feminists'.

Job done.

I think Ophelias posts have it pretty spot on.

With the addition that in some people's opinions that I have come across, all 'sex negative' feminists only have missionary sex with the lights off, whilst wearing their cardigans.

It's a re-branding of the age old misogynist prude/whore dichotomy isn't it?

Try to assert your sexual boundaries - you're a prude who deserves to be raped.

Try to man-please by pretending you have no boundaries - you're a whore who deserves anything we fancy in any orifice we fancy in any combination. In other words, first we'll fuck you in a way that you think you've consented to but will get very little pleasure from, then we'll anally rape you because, hey, you effectively told us you were up for it, and who misses a slice off a cut loaf?

"Sex-positive" is one of my most hated fun fem phrases (and I say that as someone who has had a long and enjoyable consensual sex life as an adult, and who has dabbled in writing erotic fiction).

Sex positive is the sort of feminism men like.

Sex positive is the sort of feminism men like.

ie - it isn't actually feminism