make misogyny a hate crime

[changeypants]

i really think it would be a good starting point, and that while it is not, women are disadvantaged in debates such as the trans (non) debate from the off.

i was wondering if any progress had been made and googled upon this from hansard in march this year:

hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2018-03-07/debates/92236C51-2340-4D97-92A7-4955B24C2D74/MisogynyAsAHateCrime

melanie onn for labour makes a detailed and compelling case. check out the very first reply. it would be hilarious, if the real life implications of being a second class citizen weren't so devastating.

Fuck me

Thats a 'what about the men comment' if i ever saw one

I think all hate crime laws should be abolished.

ha posie that's what my lovely dad just said.... elaborate?

Can we take it as read that she thinks that misandry ought to be a hate crime, too?

JFC.
Can we take it as read that people talking about traffic crimes are also against petty theft?

So hate crime is reliant on identity politics and I think that sort of thing has ruined the left. If I get punched in the face is it worse than if my son does because I'm female, or not as bad as if Muhammed at number 9 does because he's a muslim?

And then where will it end? I was told I am transphobic by the police for calling Janet "sex work is a rite of passage for trans girls" Mock Mr Mock. A man that promotes prostitution for teens in a way no woman, whether she's a pro sex worker champion or not, ever would. This would have ramped up my three charges to something quite serious.

The answer to misogyny is not to criminalise is but to use the full force of the law to prosecute men when they harm and abuse women. IMO

How about making sexual harassment a criminal offence? So upskirting, misogynistic abuse on the streets, groping etc?

It would be hard to police but they seem to manage it with workplace laws, at least to an extent.

Every MRA in the world will now appear to tell us how this means they will never be able to talk to a woman ever again and the human race will die out

I think it is isn't it? Just not taken seriously by police. We could just use the laws already in place.

The weird thing at the moment is that men who have breezed without note in their lives are so indignant about the odd comment or misgendering, stuff that if it happened to women we would wonder if we were invisible as most of us experience more abuse and think little of it. I don't feel like calling the police every time someone asks about sex life, tells me how they feel about me or parts of my body.... I think the police have better things to do, but trans gender snowflakes seem to want to criminalise any thoughts that don't support their subjective view of themselves. Madness.

Upskirting is not illegal. The police can try to bring other laws to it if they want but they don't quite fit.

I don't know about street harassment - whether it's illegal or not. I think touching is. Frottage? Think so. Saying stuff? Not so sure. There has to be a threat in there and anyway I don't think the police care much.

Problem is laws for all of time were written by men for men, and so encomapass the sort of things that happen to men. The sort of things that happen to women are therefore just not very well covered.

So physical assaults are very clear cut, sexual assaults which do not cause physical damage less so. If a man pushed another man that is seen as an aggressive act. If a man grabs a womans' breasts that is seen as, something different. Even though it might hurt.

The laws we have are often not reflective of, or suitable for, crimes that are committed predominantly against women and girls (and so that seeps across when men and boys are victims of those crimes as well).

Upskirting should be illegal.

Misogyny within the law should not be labelled a hate crime, as such. People are free to be misogynistic, or grumpy, or opinionated, as much as they like.
For example, if someone says " I don't think a woman could do this job" ( as I heard a head teacher say of a job that almost any man or woman could have done better than him ) then he is a prat. I'd not want someone in court for being a prat. They have to run 24 hours a day. It is when unfair appointments are made that the problems arise, isn't it?

But I think all hate crime and hate speech should be obliterated. If I want say "he' for a man it shouldn't be a police matter.

Ceinwin when notts (I think it was) made misogyny a hate crime, the reports that they got were non trivial.

I'm inclined to agree with posie, by analogy with blasphemy laws.

Even though the BTL was all "women will be reporting men for wolf whistling this is ridiculous"...

(Although I think that a group of men wolf whistling at a lone schoolgirl can be extremely intimidating... From whose point of view is the law supposed to act?).

I also think that hate crime and hate speech laws should be abolished.

However, for so long as they do exist they should include misogyny - else the perverse situation exists where the most prevalent form of hateful discrimination is perceived as nonexistent under the law, and you have the situation, which I have seen more than once, where a crime or sexual assault is committed against a woman purely because of her sex, but she, the victim, is prosecuted or otherwise punished for her verbal retaliation of her perpetrator who DOES have some protected characteristic.

It totally unfair that mysogeny isn't a hate crime if analogous situations are.

I think I was thinking (what a terrible start to a sentence is that?!) it would help from a balancing rights perspective. When women's rights are being balanced against trans rights it seems distinctly unfair that misogyny is not a hate crime when transphobia is. This when misogyny prevalent in many crimes as well as in general thinking. I would hope making it a hate crime would underscore that it's not just prejudice against women, there is also the systemic imbalance of power between men and women.

I also think that hate crime and hate speech laws should be abolished.

However, for so long as they do exist they should include misogyny - else the perverse situation exists where the most prevalent form of hateful discrimination is perceived as nonexistent under the law, and you have the situation, which I have seen more than once, where a crime or sexual assault is committed against a woman purely because of her sex, but she, the victim, is prosecuted or otherwise punished for her verbal retaliation of her perpetrator who DOES have some protected characteristic.

This is exactly my position on this issue. For the reason I bolded.

Not just unfair but illogical and nonsensical and deliberate

deliberate as it's so common that the police would never have time to do anything else
deliberate as most of society don't really see this sort of stuff as criminal

The reason is that sex IS a protected characteristic when it comes to provision of goods and servces, and in employment laws, there is recognition there that women can be and are discriminated against on the basis of their sex

The same list of characteristics is the hate crimes list with sex erased. Because, prevalence, money, who cares.

Yes I think I agree

Protected characteristics

"Protected Characteristics. The Equality Act covers the same groups that were protected by existing equality legislation – age, disability, gender reassignment, race, religion or belief, sex, sexual orientation, marriage and civil partnership and pregnancy and maternity. These are now called `protected characteristics"

"The term 'hate crime' can be used to describe a range of criminal behaviour where the perpetrator is motivated by hostility or demonstrates hostility towards the victim's disability, race, religion, sexual orientation or transgender identity."

(CPS)

Note that age is also missing.

I would say that there are hate crimes committed there as well. Mitigated I think because crimes against children or young people are generally deemed by society as very serious as their vulnerability is acknowledged.

Anyway - sex is the obvious omission. It's pretty stark.

sex is the obvious omission. It's pretty stark.

Yes. It's not just some accidental omission and the government/police cannot believe that women and girls are not attacked and abused because of their sex. The only thing I can conclude is that they think it's just part of normal life for women and girls to be abused and rather than trying to change the culture and tackle it, misogyny just needs to be accepted as the way things are, rather than viewed in the same way racism is.

11 police forces in the UK class abusing goths as a hate crime, whereas only 2 class misogynistic abuse as a hate crime.

Aside from the argument about whether hate crime should be treated differently from other crime, the fact that all these other groups are covered but abuse and violence on the basis of sex is not sends a very clear message that women do not matter, that misogyny is the acceptable prejudice and the powers that be are not going to lift a finger to attempt to change that.