is it sexist to call inanimate objects 'she?'

[belhamwalk]

hey - i got in a tussle with some eejits on the internet yesterday about using 'she' and 'her' to describe objects like computers or cars or guns or whatever. i think its totally demeaning and another way for men to own and dehumanise women. Then i spoke to a female friend who couldn't see the problem. just wondering what other people think?

Some things are traditionally female (ships, for example) but I would not have thought that a weapon was one of those Though bombs in WW2 sometimes were, come to think of it. Even more now...

That said, I don't think anthropomorhising objects is by default sexism - I think it's something that's contingent on the situation.

are you serious? English is one of the only languages that does not assign gender to nouns.
???

You're really not familiar with the convention that a ship is always referred to as "she"? Well, clearly not, but it's been the case since Tudor times at least and possibly longer!

Ships is a historical usage so I can see why some men might use she/her to refer to them. Even though it's got a historical use it still seems a little anachronistic in modern usage.

Computers, cars and guns (?!) is not a historical thing and frankly is a bit weird. If it's just a question of anthropomorphising, why is it that these men always choose to refer to objects as she/her, never he/him?

Old English used to have gendered nouns, but they slowly got dropped after our contact with Scandinavian languages.

The relics of this we have are ships/ machinery (she) and in some dialects tools are male.

Not sexist, just a fascinating relic of our linguistic history.

If you have ever learned a language with gendered nouns, the gender of the noun is not really related to sex of the object (in German, the word for girls is neuter, but the word for woman is female. and tbh all the others seem equally random)

@jedenfalls fascinating! Thank you for explaining that - I always wondered where it came from

utterly no problem, it fascinates me too, English is such a mongrel language.

But I’m only an interested amateur, there are some real linguistics experts here on Mumsnet.

Though in more modern usage, objects which didn't exist when 'English' still had gendered nouns are traditionally referred to as female - usually by men. and typically machinery.

I think this is because the operator of the machine can get very engrossed in it, regard themselves as coaxing the best out of it, anthropomorphise it, develop an affection for it. It becomes an emotional attachment, and they assign it the pronoun they connect with attachment: 'she', because most men are hetero.

Yes, I strongly suspect there is an element of affection for something you are dependent on too.

Some Welsh people attach gender to inanimate objects when speaking English - both male and female. I assume it comes from the Welsh language but I don't know. Most languages do don't they?

England was conquered by the French. La, Le, and Les are very much a part of the French language and just like Beef, Lamb, and Pork there are many French influences on the language.

My first motorised vehicle, a 50cc moped was given a male name. He was an unglamourous, and occasionally unreliable means of transport, sporting "L" plates. Following this, all my motorcycles were given female names. And when I eventually, late in life, learned to drive, every car has been given a female name. To me, it's an anthropormorphic expression of mutual respect and affection.
Look up any account from the pilots of the RAF from WW2 describing (eg) their Spitfires or Lancasters, and the aircraft are invariably described as female, never male, with similar sentiments, but obviously in infinately more dangerous and challenging circumstances than my drive to work.
Finally, I wonder whether whether the same question would have been asked about inanimate objects being given male characteristics/names. Probably. Sigh...

"Sex" is male and female.

"Gender" is masculine and feminine.

Gendered pronouns may or may not connote characteristics attributed to gender, such as 'she' is temperamental and only performs her designated function under male command.

There's a lot of "she" and "he" for inanimate objects in the south west, as in "where's she to?" (= "Where is it?")

I mean, it's dialect, not some kind of engrained sexism.

I have given all the cars that I have had in my life, Male names, as they have always been crappy.. I just thought I would add this,,as the whole topic is stupid.

Sexist or not, I thought the reason that ships were termed ‘she’ was because basically the ship was viewed as the sailors’ mother and kept them safe. Probably not a 21st century perspective but reasonable in its historical context.