Local elections and stance of each political party on self-identification?

[MrsFogi]

I started the same thread in the Politics section because I thought it may have been of interest to others that hang out on that board but have had no responses so am reposting here.

I am planning to email the councillors in my are to explain why I will/will not be voting for them in the upcoming elections. Whilst I know that these are local elections my major concerns at the moment are the GRA (and the self-id debate) and Brexit. Setting aside Brexit, can anyone help me with what each of the parties has said about self-id/the GRA so that I can put together a coherent email to each? Many thanks

I am seeing my mp Wera hobhouse at 3 pm today about all this. Sorry to sidetrack but im a bit nervous and wondering what exactly to say. As a political poster do you have any suggestions on key points to keep me focused?

I'm sure I know less than you but as far as I can see even the women's party are pro-self I'd!

Hi Terfulike - I'm afraid I am no expert but I suggest the best place to start would be to take a look at the Fair Play for Women website which is packed with great information: FairPlay
Well done for going to see your MP!

Also keep it simple with a few key points that you are most concerned about. Its a big subject and its easy to get lost in it.

Good luck.

Terfulike.

I would say that you are very pro equality and in support of everyone's right to live free of discrimination (assuming this is true - I have yet to meet anyone on mumsnet who doesn't believe this)

Check they know the proposed changes mean any man could say he was a woman with no safeguarding (unlike now) and legally become one.

That you are worried the impact on women and girls has been missed, and give a specific eg that is important to you/will be an area your MP has a focus on

Eg retaining single sex spaces - girl guide policy currently allows mixed sex accommodation/showers without telling parents (see FairPlay for women for more detail) What about safeguarding and girls right to privacy? OR concerns that male prisoners will abuse 'self-Id' to access women's prisons - how will female prisoners be protected?

If you feel concerned the debate has been shut down or frightened about talking, say so.

Ask how they can help you get answers to your concerns and make sure women's voices are heard.

Mention WPUK and FairPlay for Women who are trying to promote respectful debate (but get accused of hate speech) and follow up with some links.

Good luck!

Thanks mrs fogi

I have found this from greens 2015. I've included all sex/gender related pages...non about women sorry nonmen!

Continued...

Fantastic advice Wander - my script in fact. My personal examples will be my 14 y old daughter going to top shop with her friends and my lesbian friend who's worried about her smear test. Good idea to preface with assertion of belief in equality for all rather than bowling straight in. Thanks red I will be succinct.

@Terfluke well done on doing this! I've only so far written to my MP (reply to say my letter is being sent to the minister responsible). This whole thing is just so huge that I find it very difficult to focus down on it. This is especially annoying as it's always being presented as something that only concerns trans people.

If someone told me I had to state my case in 20 words I'm sure I couldn't do it. But I would emphasise the positive: we are not anti-trans rights, (still less out to exterminate!) but we are concerned about existing women's rights that are being eroded, all those companies 'getting ahead of the law' by making unisex spaces, rapists in women's jails etc.

Also, I don't think the government has thought this through at all, probably because it's seen as an issue that will only affect trans people. What about the collection of statistics? In health care? How will we know who is more affected by whatever disease, best practice in treatment (which we are increasingly seeing to be sex-specific), The Yogyakarta Principles (wouldn't bring this up if you haven't read them btw) want sex/gender removed from birth certificates & official docs. What will that do to governments stats about our population?

I am wittering on now, sorry, but tell us how it goes please!

Sages factsheet is great for MP discussion

Print copies to share if you can.

If not, you can always follow up with an email with links.

sages.org.uk/publications/sages-factsheet.html

Good luck

Thanks for all suggestions. I agree that Statistical records are important Ancient: what on earth will future generations think about the resultant early 21st century "blip" in data just after computers had become ubiquitous? Imagining all the hard work people put into recording and collecting census materials in days gone by, and we're going to cock up the continuity of that data by recording it in an ambigious fashion.

Terfulike I got your name wrong! Apologies.

Maybe a minor point in this context but I like family history stuff. Will my gggggg children be trying to work out who was their ggggg mother/father because the records won't show that? How frustrating!

My meeting with my local MP Wera Hobhouse went really well!

I began by stressing my belief in equality of opportunity for all and that I was against discrimination towards any group.

I asked Wera if she was aware of the recent controversy between feminists and trans activists regarding the self ID bill. She said she'd heard about it but didn't know the arguments and could I tell her.

I outlined our point of view including examples such as girl guides, school toilets and changing rooms. Wera seemed surprised about a lot of things eg that most trans women have a penis, that kids can sometimes be "diagnosed" at age 3 etc. I told her that transsexuals are being bullied and called truscum, and that lesbians were being harassed because they didn't find lady penis alluring.

She mentioned her upskirting issue and I suggested that it could be extended to include taking photos under the curtain, or over the partition of a changing room (I think Manfriday highlighted this recently).
She wants me to have a meeting with her transexual friend - not sure why but all calm communication between groups is good on this topic.

She asked what action I wanted her to take and I urged her to ask for biological female representation on all committees set up to discuss sex and gender (not just trans groups). I suggested A Womans Place as a source of expertise and she wrote that down saying she'd visit the website.

All in all she was interested and wanted to know more: we all know the more a women learns about this the more shocked they become so I'm wondering and hoping she'll peaktrans.

@Terfulike I think that Wera Hobhouse fibbed you off, and sees you as a bigot that just needs to meet a transgender person to find out that there is really no threat to women from transgender people.

Fibbed? fobbed.

No really that's not how it was I spoke to her for half an hour. She was genuinely shocked. Remember her friend is a transexual not a transwomen with a penis.

That's brilliant well done on going. Biological female representation is a great request - it needs to be women who can see and advocate for the needs and rights of biological women though, eg people from WPUK or Fair Play for Women. Maria Miller and Ruth from Stonewall have not represented these interests at all despite being biologically female.

FairPlay for women also a good site to recommend.

I really don't think she will be fobbing her constituent off - a lot of MPs are just not aware of the issues Upstart. The impact on women of self-ID proposals and others in Maria Milker's report simply hasn't been considered properly or discussed yet. Great that this MP suggested a conversation with someone about it.

I know a tiny bit about Wera, and don't think it sounds like she fobbed you off.

They have to be so careful; the way TRAs conduct themselves makes this one of the hottest hot potatoes I've ever known. See Brian Paddick's Twitter feed, for example.

Say you were Wera and you also shared concerns privately.
Would you tell a constituent?
What could you do?

I don't know. Setting up a meeting with a trans friend seems an odd response. Wera doesn't know if you are a crazy who would turn up with a bunch of other people to abuse her friend. She's theoretically putting her friend at risk, if she views you as a transphobe.

Also why would her friend agree to meet a raging transphobe. Knowing how heated the debate is, it could easily turn sour even if you aren't a crazy with a mob (which i'm sure you are not for the record!!). It seems a big ask.

I don't know, but when I first saw this I thought, yeah you've been labelled and set up to be 'educated'. But I the above makes me pause for thought.

I think the question for me would be what is the position of her friend?

Very glad to hear it went well. You're giving me courage to approach my MP for a meeting.

Well I'm going to meet this friend if it does get arranged. Wera is reading her bill on 11th so I'll watch that with interest. I did tell her there were a fair few transexuals at our womans place meetings and she knows i regard them as our allies. Why on earth would I need educating?

That's great Ancient, I do encourage you to do so. I think if we can get mps talking amongst themselves that would change things a lot. Perhaps they are too scared of being labelled transphobic at the moment. If constituents go to them with their worries and the constituent appears reasonable and sane (hopefully I did, I certainly tried) then they might broach the subject with each other: "I had a woman at my surgery and she said she posts on mn against selfid, but she seemed quite reasonable, how can that be?"