Gender dysphoria and ASD

[Auti]

I'm a 49yo heterosexual Mum with a husband of nearly 11 years.
I'm also autistic being diagnosed 3.5 years ago after an adulthood of difficulties.

One of the difficulties I had was a confusion about my identity and sexuality through my teens and 20's.
I hated my adolescent and adult female body. I cut my hair short and dressed down typically wearing shirts and trousers/jeans. Never wore make up or made any effort with my appearance.
I felt asexual was not attracted to men or women.
I never dated or had any sexual experiences.

Then in my late 20's I found myself attracted to a male colleague at work. I realised I was actually heterosexual.
I however took another 5 to 6 years before I went on a date.
Around 35 to 36 I lost my virginity.

What's the point of this sorry tale you may ask yourself

Well my point is I think their is a significant link between gender dysphoria and high functioning ASD.
I've thought this for while.

People with ASD often have problems with identity, change in general and be immature both emotionally and sexually.

If when I was a teenager and the whole trans thing was huge maybe I would have wanted to be male as I knew I didn't like being female at that time.

Looking into research on Gender Dysphoria and ASD it seems I may be right

From above:
" Young people with gender dysphoria have an elevated rate of Asperger syndrome, according to a new study.
Individuals with gender dysphoria feel distress because there is a mismatch between their physical gender and their perceived gender.

Daniel Shumer and colleagues conducted a retrospective review of patient chart data from 39 consecutive patients between 8 and 20 years of age seen at a gender clinic. Of this group, 22 were biologically male and 17 were biologically female. The researchers report, “Overall, 23.1% of patients (9 of 39) presenting with gender dysphoria had possible, likely, or very likely Asperger syndrome as measured by the Asperger Syndrome Diagnostic Scale (ASDS).”

However, the researchers say their findings “are consistent with growing evidence supporting increased prevalence of ASD [autism spectrum disorders] in gender dysphoric children.” "

I think people need to know about this especially parents of kids who think they have gender dysphoria.

@Auti
There is quite a lot about autism and gender dysphoria on this thread. www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3228447-Transing-children?msgid=77308514
The thread has gone off in a bit of a different direction now, but you might find the post I've linked to and some of the following ones interesting.

Many many girls do not get diagnosed until very late anyway.

Absolutely, and I was very similar when I was young, and also met someone relatively late in life.

I think this is why this issue especially infuriates me. Autistic people are going to be victims of this "take drugs, hurt your body, become infertile" movement more than others.

It's horrific and I hate how I can "see" how it would work as that would have been me jumping up and down for it aged nine - but by my age I can also see the fucking long term implications and how it wouldn't have helped me at all.

Agree. It is one (of many) things that worry me about transing children.

As I child I wanted to be a boy. As a teenager I was more comfortable socialising with boys (although I wasn't keen on socialising with anybody). I hated my developing body during puberty. I didn't have a maternal bone in my body.

If someone had offered me a chance to be a boy I would probably have jumped at it. And I wouldn't have been bothered if that had meant I'd be sterile.

But that changed. I matured. I have kids and I would have been devastated if I hadn't been able to. And a recent ASD diagnosis has helped me understand myself.

I feel so angry and upset by what is happening today.

Sorry for the delay in reply.

It is interesting that others have found a link between ASD and gender confusion on MN

....but it seems few on MN make the link?

How can this be more widely known?

Thank so much for posting. My ASD 20 year old thinks she is a boy. I think in times past she would have followed your path. in fact I know if she had been born 5 years earlier or 5 years later we would not be where we are today where she sincerely believes her destiny is surgery, and hormones.

I can't post again this evening but will check in tomorrow, I would be really interested to know more.

Hi,
Yes, I recognise this too.

Auti,

The psychiatrist who diagnosed my DD aged 19 with ASD is well aware that some of those presenting with GD will in fact come to realise over time that the source of the GD is autism, and that transitioning will not necessarily help.

I have come across other undiagnosed women autistic who really struggled with their identity / role in the works in their late teens and twenties. But they, like you, came out the other side without having undergone surgery or taking cross sex hormones.

It might be too hard a question to answer, but what would you say to your younger self if you had been convinced you were born in the wrong body?

I am undiagnosed, but as Ds has a diagnosis and dd is waiting for a diagnosis and I recognise the description of autistic females as being very similar to my experiences...

I recognise similar feelings and experiences as others have described above. I am lucky to have got through it without the pressure to trans that is around today. I am preparing dd to understand that these feelings are normal for autistic girls and it does not mean that she is not a girl.

we are in a multiple whammy situation - a) we didn't know DD was autistic - b) DD suffers massively with anxiety and depression - c) we had no idea that she had any difficulty with her biological sex d) by nature she is a very rigid thinker e) only now realising how all pervasive and seductive the trans narrative is on social media e) she is emotionally several years behind her peers, yet able to access adult services, cheered on by well meaning but clueless trans allies

Anecdata suggests that the link between ASD in girls and gender dysphoria is real. As is the link between the former and eating disorders and self harm.

Many girls on the spectrum feel uncomfortable with societal expectations in adolescence and following. Some will be very ‘young for her age’ - ie social/emotional understanding will be delayed. Some will find that the growing distance between boys and girls leaves them stranded as their closest friends in younger years were boys. Some will latch onto the idea that their brain isn’t wrong or broken, instead their body is.

As a parent it’s a really hard road, because trying to validate your child’s experiences while repeating a that their body is not broken or wrong is hard. And because the exact opposite information comes from peers and online chat rooms it’s even harder.

There are a number of blogs run by trans autistic people who explain their reality in ways that I find really difficult to read. Because I find myself shouting at the computer/iPad screen that being female isn’t so bad, and that becoming a boy will only change the nature of their misfit with society.

slate.com/human-interest/2018/03/why-are-a-disproportionate-number-of-autistic-youth-transgender.html

transadvocate.com/slate-wants-you-to-be-concerned-that-a-disproportionate-number-of-autistic-youth-are-transgender-heres-why-that-concern-is-bs_n_22182.htm

www.buildsomethingpositive.com/wenn/gender.html

If you google there are lots and lots of people with something to say on the topic. Mostly, like much of the so called ‘discussion’ of anything trans-related anyone who questions or suggests that maybe this isn’t the best direction to be pushing people, it’s an internet full of advocates who only hear what suits their own narrative. (I’m sure some of those people think GC feminists also create a bubble)

This was in my newsfeed a few days ago. I actually think it’s the other way around. Autistic people I know are actually significantly more tuned into other people’s feelings than their peers. And care more.

There is a community for them if they ‘choose’ this route. People desperate for a community will often do much to get one.

"More Rote Than Meaning, a female, autistic UK medical student in her 30s."
morerotethanmeaning.wordpress.com/2017/11/19/first-blog-post/
Valuable personal and medical perspective in this blog...

@StarkStaring
It might be too hard a question to answer, but what would you say to your younger self if you had been convinced you were born in the wrong body?

I would say to younger Aspies to think hard and long about wanting to trans and show them the evidence of a link between Gender Dysphoria and ASD.
I would also show them that the founder of the trans identity movement was a fraud who did irreparable harm to the Reimer Brothers

This cheer leading of trans ideology is very worrying to me for the effect on gender confused young autistic people.

If I had had undergone hormone therapy and surgery in my teens/twenties and then released I'd made a massive mistake I do not think I would be here today.

Stark Staring you must be beside yourself with worry.

I have found a young Aspie on YouTube who started transing and thankfully realised her mistake before too much damage was done.

I'll try and find it for you

I've found her :)

It seems that any discussion around this is immediately labeled as transphobic. It is not a helpful debate.

All of the transgender individuals (or other gender identies) that I know/of have an asd diagnosis as well. Yet can also be the ones shutting down debate. I'm not sure why, but the arguments seem to start and finish with 'that's transphobic'

This research has been published recently which I think is also relevant.

“I Don't Feel Like a Gender, I Feel Like Myself”: Autistic Individuals Raised as Girls Exploring Gender Identity

www.liebertpub.com/doi/10.1089/aut.2018.0001

All of the transgender individuals (or other gender identies) that I know/of have an asd diagnosis as well.

Interesting.

It's also interesting that although that the number of people with ASD is currently thought to be a teeny 1% .....

Yet gender dysphoria research finds people with ASD massively over represented at 20%.

Please please this needs proper dissemination and discussion :(

I'm pretty sure the Tavistock are on top of this. They're the leading Gender Identity Clinic. I remember watching the documentary about them and the links with ASD were talked about.

I'm on the spectrum and was definitely non-conforming from early childhood; I liked to be mistaken for a boy. I think it was discovering same sex attraction in my early twenties that made everything fall into place. I'm bisexual and not trans.

Another feature of ASD is a tendency to challenge orthodoxies.

Maybe that’s why there’s quite a few of us in the gender critical camp too?

Can also relate to much of the above - bisexual, genderless (or genderfree, as per childfree?) and have autism diagnosis.

I wonder if another aspect of this is that the gender stereotypes, particularly for younger people, have become so much more rigid than when I was growing up. And there seems to be more importance put in gender than sex in some quarters these days. So with the black and white thinking that characterises so many autistic people have it’s easy to see why people might think that “ok, I like trains and don’t like skirts, therefore according to this set of social rules I must be a boy”. Whereas when I was growing up it was sex that was deemed the primary focus, so my rigid thinking led me to “ok, so I like cars and don’t like dressing up, but I have a vagina so I am still a girl”.

It’s another case where widening the gender steeeotypes might be extremely helpful.

Those are some really interesting papers. I especially like the "Autistic Individuals Raised as Girls Exploring Gender Identity" as my trans identifying daughter sees herself as a man, so therefore is not interested in anything referring to "autistic women".

It is a feminist issue. Girls go undiagnosed, and are therefore unsupported and vulnerable. Meanwhile gender dysphoria is framed according to neurotypical presentation.

I looked on the NAS website which has a section on gender (ie biological sex and how that affects diagnosis) and gender dysphoria.

www.autism.org.uk/about/what-is/gender.aspx

In the first section, a great paper on how women with ASD are undiagnosed and the difficulties this causes, but this isn't highlighted as a key issue by the charity:

link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs10803-016-2872-8

In the second section, mostly pointing out the extra difficulties autistic people may face because they are trans, with signposts to Mermaids and GIRES etc.

There is no discussion of gender identity difficulties of the type described by some of the women on this thread.

Lousloneknows. Whilst the Tavistock are aware of it, they only deal with kids up to age 17. Denying hormones and surgery to autistic people is deemed to be gatekeeping.