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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Any Lewisham residents here? Labour's Mayoral candidate thinks Venice Allan's meetings are transphobic

26 replies

yetanotherusernameAgain · 24/04/2018 18:15

(The London Borough of Lewisham is where Venice Allan booked two venues to hold the London meetings of We Need To Talk. Both venues cancelled after coming under intense pressure from activists determined to prevent the meetings from taking place. Lewisham is a strong Labour borough and the Labour candidate is generally regarded as a certainty to be elected as Mayor.)

At Mayoral hustings on Monday night the candidates were asked about freedom of speech, with reference to the two cancelled meetings.

The Labour candidate, Damien Egan, said meetings could be booked on council premises provided they weren't promoting hate speech or transphobic. He said he was aware groups with transphobic views had been barred from holding meetings and thought that was the right decision. When asked after the meeting whether he considered the referenced meetings (ie Venice Allan's) to be transphobic, he said yes.

The other candidate who knew of the New Cross meeting issue was John Hamilton of Lewisham People Before Profit. He said everyone deserves police protection if there is a threat that a meeting is going to be disrupted. He thought the meeting should have happened safely in Lewisham and not in the open air [a reference to the Speakers' Corner incident].

OP posts:
BlackForestCake · 24/04/2018 18:36

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

thebewilderness · 24/04/2018 18:51

I am so effing tired of men declaring that women's rights are wrong.

restingbeachface · 25/04/2018 12:04

Thanks for this, have been looking at the options and wondering what on earth to do. Have met John Hamilton several times and I liked a lot of what he stands for. Have always voted Green but that seems to be out of the question at the moment.

Wanderabout · 25/04/2018 12:34

Oh dear Damien Egan that one is going to come back to bite you.

If you really think it's transphobic to discuss your daughter's right to get changed in a room without naked penises then good luck with explaining that to London voters.

Hadn't heard of John Hamilton, will look him up.

Trousersdontmakemeaman · 25/04/2018 12:39

So you don't attend a meeting because its cancelled, you only know 2nd hand what is discussed and yet you are willing to demonise and denounce the the meetings on the basis of hearsay.

What a thoroughly unreliable person he is.

xxmarksthespot · 25/04/2018 12:41

provided they weren't promoting hate speech or transphobic

Did they bother to define hate speech or transphobia ? Shall we guess - threatening women with rapes and beatings, all fine. Saying that women want to discuss the ramifications of self ID, hate ?

CircleSquareCircleSquare · 25/04/2018 13:05

Bloody hell.
It makes me want to fund some kind of leaflet campaign showing voters what is actually happening.

Trousersdontmakemeaman · 25/04/2018 13:35

You know you can only use the clueless justification for this for so long before it starts to actually become willful ignorance of the facts.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 25/04/2018 13:43

I'm a Lewisham resident. I'm going to vote for Duwayne Brooks for Mayor. Utterly fed up with Labour winning every single election and having effectively no opposition. It's not good for democracy.

Just looked at the councillor elections. Bit stumped there as in my ward there are no independent candidates. Every single mainstream political party has swallowed the Kool Aid, even the WEP, so not sure what I'm going to do, but given that they could just as easily weigh as count the Labour vote not sure it will make any practical difference.

PS John Hamilton and People for Profit have been going a long time. Not very impressed by what I've heard about them.

yetanotherusernameAgain · 26/04/2018 13:37

I think John Hamilton was surprised by Damien Egan's response because he (John) thought Damien had misunderstood which meetings the question had referred to, but Damien confirmed he was talking about the same meeting (I think they both had the New Cross meeting in mind).

At the time I'd forgotten that Venice Allan had been a Labour Party member and all the kerfuffle about the Christmas party. Damien Egan's opinion may well be formed in that wider context. In fact Venice Allan's name wasn't mentioned in the question put to the panel, it was Damien who referred to her when he was asked an individual question after the meeting, so he's obviously aware of who she is.

OP posts:
Wanderabout · 26/04/2018 20:41

Damien Egan should read Bristol University's statement on freedom of speech. This bit seems particularly pertinent:
"We do not condone attempts to silence discussion before it has even taken place or the use of stereotyping or threatening language to prevent debate."

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3232952-Bristol-University-Freedom-of-Speech-A-statement-by-the-Chair-of-the-Universitys-Equality-Diversity-and-Inclusion-Group?watched=1&msgid=77418332#77418332

LizzieSiddal · 26/04/2018 21:35

If you really think it's transphobic to discuss your daughter's right to get changed in a room without naked penises then good luck with explaining that to London voters.

I agree, but the problem is that most voters don’t have a clue what’s going on.

LizzieSiddal · 26/04/2018 21:36

We need to somehow get the Bristol Uni statement, more widely seen.

MonsoonMama · 28/04/2018 14:51

Oh wow, I'm a Lewisham resident but missed the hustings. I've always voted Labour, but wasn't planning to this time because of this issue (and also because of other local issues such as education, I don't think the one party state in Lewisham has done the borough any favours). I feel very much politically homeless and really don't know who to vote for this time, but do want to use my vote to give Labour a shake up in the borough. Was thinking about John Hamilton, and if he's the only mayoral candidate offering some support to women on this issue then looks like my mayoral vote will have to go to him. But I'm stuck on who to vote for councillor-wise in my ward - looks like it might have to be a tactical vote vs Labour. But it pains me to vote Lib Dem or Green given their stance on this issue.

BlackForestCake · 28/04/2018 22:28

I see MN is back to censoring our posts to appease the cult.

MonsoonMama · 04/05/2018 14:10

So Damien Egan stormed it in Lewisham. So depressing.

restingbeachface · 04/05/2018 14:25

Urgh. Yes I was just checking on the result myself and saw this thread had re-activated. Not happy with the result is an understatement.

Historically (until this shit-storm) I had always voted green and I am pleased to see them gain and come in third. I kind of know their candidate so will try and raise the self-ID issue when I next get the chance.

Freespeecher · 04/05/2018 15:35

Rumours are that Heidi Alexander, MP for Lewisham, is to announce she's standing down once the local results are in.

TERFragetteCity · 04/05/2018 15:54

I see MN is back to censoring our posts to appease the cult.

Justine's husband Director of Programmes has just invited Caitlyn Jenner to speak at the House of Commons in Diversity. So it is no wonder Mumsnet's policy has changed as it could damage Justine's husband's career. Just be glad you are being silenced in order for two white men's careers - a worthy cause if ever I heard one.

www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-5691647/Caitlyn-Jenner-deliver-diversity-lecture-House-Commons.html

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 04/05/2018 16:46

30 Labour councillors elected so far in Lewisham. Not a single councillor so far from any other party. Hmm.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 05/05/2018 07:58

The Mayor and every single councillor in Lewisham is Labour. This isn't healthy.

Boiledeggandtoast · 05/05/2018 08:18

Indeed, all the Councillors in Lewisham are Labour based on some 60% of the votes cast. Democracy?

LaSqrrl · 05/05/2018 08:26

Woah! TERFragetteCity!

Justine's husband Director of Programmes has just invited Caitlyn Jenner to speak at the House of Commons in Diversity. So it is no wonder Mumsnet's policy has changed as it could damage Justine's husband's career. Just be glad you are being silenced in order for two white men's careers - a worthy cause if ever I heard one.

But goes a long way to explaining some of the ridiculous moderation going on of late.

I think I may just drop this link here, and say nothing about it.
Diversity, yeah sure. If the definition of 'diversity' now means accepting any male creepy behaviour? Oh yeah, then sure... 'diversity'.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 05/05/2018 12:40

BoiledEgg, yes, that's democracy in action in a first past the post system. Just too bad for the 40% of us who didn't vote Labour.

Southfields · 05/05/2018 20:00

I have some personal experience of this and this is my take on it.

VA herself is very transphobic, if by that word we mean "hates" trans activists. But the vast majority of the people who attend the meetings she has organised are not - they are purely interested in defending women's rights. And of course Miranda Yardley has been invited to speak at them.

None of the meetings arranged by VA or AWPUK should ever be shut down, banned, hassled or threatened. I am disgusted at the lack of backbone of the venues which cancelled, and appalled that the police have not given women protection even when all those masked men turn up to intimidate women.

I wish someone would step in and say to these TRA "ENOUGH ALREADY" and tell them that next time they will be arrested for threatening behaviour, breach of the peace, etc. What do we pay our taxes for?