Yogyakarta principles

[Trousersdontmakemeaman]

yogyakartaprinciples.org/

At the Bristol meeting Shelia Jeffreys refers to these principles which are behind the worldwide drive to include cross dressing males in the legal definition of female. I haven't read them all yet, it is long, but I thought it may be of interest.

How long before someone claims paedophilia is a sexual orientation and paedophiles shouldn't be discriminated against or referred for treatment/therapy?

I saw indications of this mentioned on Twitter...I didn't save it though and can't remember who tweeted it but this does seem to be "out there".

Paedophilia is a “sexual orientation” like being straight or gay, according to a criminal psychologist. www.independent.co.uk/news/paedophilia-sexual-orientation-straight-gay-criminal-psychologist-child-sex-abuse-a6965956.html

Pre reading for the meeting on 13th June in London.

Wow! It is astonishing that this got through ... .classic example of great document with some Trojan horses sneaked in under the radar...

BUT ARE THEY???

I am not sure all countries are so enthusiastically embracing them as Scotland.

And surely they are open to interpretation?

for example Ensure that all individuals can participate in sport without discrimination on the grounds of sexual orientation, gender identity, gender expression or sex characteristics; " which translates as 'transwomen can compete in women's sport

.... Can this not be interpreted that sex characteristics mean that for most sports it is appropriate to divide by sex characteristics i.e. women's sport for natal women???

And entirely appropriate that sport where possible can be adapted for gender expression/identity - i.e. having third category for transpeople.... Though it does seem a bit of a muddle if a Pippa Bunce can identify as a woman one day and a man another day - which if a sportsperson would mean they could compete as a man one day and in the third category another day, if they wanted to ... or does it?

There's going to be a Zoom webinar about this on Saturday - looks very interesting:

"Where did gender identity ideology come from? One source is the 2006 Yogyakarta Principles which claims to be “a universal guide to human rights which affirm binding international legal standards with which all States must comply.”
Find out more at Feminist Question Time LIVE on the Yogyakarta Principles.

Women's Human Rights Campaign (WHRC) is hosting a LIVE Feminist Question Time on Sat 8th August from 3-4.30pm UK time. Our weekly online webinars are attended by a global feminist and activist audience of between 150-300. The main focus is how gender ideology is harming the rights of women and girls. You can see recordings of previous panels on our YouTube Channel.
This week’s speakers are:
Anna Zobnina, Feminist activist and expert on international women's rights law.
Fatina Lisa, LGB Alliance.
Tina Minkowitz, international human rights lawyer, expert on the Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities, and author of the paper (as LLM thesis) Female Autonomy vs Gender identity: A critical analysis of gender identity in CEDAW jurisprudence and the Yogyakarta Principles
Register in advance for this webinar:
us02web.zoom.us/webinar/register/WN_Mq9EMIAbTkyNz5gAx4l2DQ
After registering, you will receive a confirmation email containing information about joining the webinar."

The panel sound great Tina wish I could make it. Their webinars are fab, I struggle to attend but really enjoy them when I do. Will share.

a distinguished group of international human rights experts

Really? My understanding was that they were a self-appointed group of activists, who invited along people they knew who had views compatible with theirs.

That's a bit unfair Jelly the panel includes a human rights lawyer and this woman - she was the Chair of European Network of Migrant Women, she is now the strategy and policy advisor.

cy.linkedin.com/in/anna-zobnina-9b088078

@Trousersdontmakemeaman

The Yogyakarta Principles In 2006, in response to well-documented patterns of abuse, a distinguished group of international human rights experts met in Yogyakarta, Indonesia to outline a set of international principles relating to sexual orientation and gender identity. The result was the Yogyakarta Principles: a universal guide to human rights which affirm binding international legal standards with which all States must comply. They promise a different future where all people born free and equal in dignity and rights can fulfil that precious birthright.

I think Jelly was commenting on this description of the people who were responsible for the Yogyakarta Principles, not the women speaking at the webinar.

Oh thanks Old sorry Jelly. My mistake,
I'll shut up now xx

It would seem I spoke out of ignorance. Most of my knowledge of the writers of the YPs comes from reading what Stephen Whittle had to say about them, and what Whittle said came across as cronyism.

I've started reading them (on No 10 so far) and most of what I have read makes absolute, compassionate sense. Until I got to Principle 3
The Right to recognition before the law. Fair enough that a person's minority faith should be recognised as valid among a majority of non-believers. But it goes on to say No status, such as marriage or parenthood, may be invoked as such to prevent the legal recognition of a person’s gender identity. No one shall be subjected to pressure to conceal, suppress or deny their sexual orientation or gender identity.” Could experts in Women's Rights and Equality not see the conflict this would set up? That the women whose husbands transitioned would be subjected to pressure to deny their heterosexuality.

And then Principle 6
The Right to Privacy
The right to privacy ordinarily includes the choice to disclose or not to disclose information relating to one’s ... gender identity...

The problem with this is that it requires everyone around the trans person to deny the evidence. How could a Human Rights lawyer not see the conflict inherent in a state legislating that people must lie?

So maybe the people who drew up the Yogyakarta Principles were experts in fair treatment, but they let the most appallingly unfair propositions be included.

And I misunderstood you, OhHoly

So maybe the people who drew up the Yogyakarta Principles were experts in fair treatment, but they let the most appallingly unfair propositions be included.

It looks as though it was originally intended to be about LGB rights. But at some point 'gender identity' got added on, and by making the assumption that gender identity was in some way similar to sexual orientation, they could just tag 'gender identity' on every time 'sexual orientation' was mentioned, and it would all make sense and be perfectly reasonable.

Stephen Whittle no doubt played a large part in convincing people who didn't really know much about 'gender identity' that this was a good idea.