Restaurant Etiquette

[fascinated]

I was recently in a casual restaurant with my parents and two children, one of which is a babe in arms. I’m in my early forties. Server was in his twenties, maybe.

My dad was addressed as Sir.

My mum and I were addressed as Miss.

AIBU to feel patronised? Many female friends think I should have been flattered and that I would be VU to complain to management 🤮 I had the distinct impression it was some kind of new policy (I’ve been going there for years). The whole thing sounded ridiculous as the server was clearly unfamiliar with this type of formality... but if there’s to be this kind of palaver I’d prefer “Madam” if males in my party are going to be Sir.

@lasswitadelocate air it is common is state schools in deprived areas. It doesn't happen in private schools because it is badanners hence not allowed.

I’m stuck up?! Wow

Surprised by the scepticism on the feminism board, I must admit!

I agree that Madam goes with Sir.

It has never occurred to me until now that Sir and Miss in schools was also unbalanced. But I guess it has historic roots, in that female teachers were much more likely to be unmarried and addressed as Miss in years gone by. So the title has kind of stuck.

All teachers are called Sir or Miss at my children's secondary. As in "Miss says can you email her?". Err - yes fine, but which of the 50 or so possible "Miss"es are we talking about??

Unreasonable to complain, imo as

a) the poor waiter was probably only going by what was seen as polite at school and
b) there is no 100% satisfactory equivalent to "sir" for females (as others have noted "madam" has negative connotations for many, and "ma'am" is both very old fashioned sounding and dangerously close to "mum".

Not unreasonable to tell him "I'd prefer you to address me as X" though, if you feel strongly about it.

So if Madam is not ok, why do we still use Sir?

What’s the alternative?

Guys?

if it makes you feel better i have become a MRS and acquired an non existent MR on a recent boiler quote (ie Mr & Mrs lokijet) when all dealings had been with me.]

I’m stuck up?! Wow

I think that might be me.

I agree it isn’t on the same level as some issues but I felt it was disappointing that someone so young’s idea of politeness was so patronising and sexist.

And it’s the old trope of flattery = accepting patronising crap. Because women should be ashamed of getting old and anything signifying it. I am so sick of all these little things being relevant to me. It’s so insidious. Every choice we make is loaded - change your name when you marry/don’t change your name, Ms/Mrs/Miss, dress to attract attention /don’t , heels/no heels, dye your hair/don’t dye it to cover the grey... all choices men don’t have to make

OFFS!

I agree with you OP. And none of the "madam /ma'am is sooo old fashioned" have been able to explain why "Sir" is not equally old- fashioned.

As in "Miss says can you email her?". Err - yes fine, but which of the 50 or so possible "Miss"es are we talking about??

That wouldn't have happened at my son's school as his teachers all had names, but my theoretical response would have been exactly the same as the teacher at my old school- "Miss has a name, please use it."

I was at a state school. Miss without a surname sounds very disrespectful. I can't see any difference between that and using Mr or Mrs without a surname.

If anyone calls me Miss now I assume they’re either School age or been in prison

I agree with you too, OP. Your last post was spot on.

Surprised by the scepticism on the feminism board, I must admit!

Well anyone posts on the board as it gets into active convos and quite a lot of people hate anything remotely feminist so will click on the thread to whine that we're all man hating weirdos and what not.

And it’s the old trope of flattery = accepting patronising crap.

Yes like when a man calls you "young lady" with a wink and you're meant to titter coyly. Even though you're only mean to be flattered because it's obvious that you're not young because actualy 20 year olds would be furious. I mean what the fuck.

Quite, mushroom...

Out of genuine interest how would you prefer to be addressed. Server just says 'good evening'?

Eight days

It was a casual restaurant so yes, that, or “hello/good evening folks”

I would be ok with “Madam” if Sir is being used

I have been referred to as You guys.

Why is this horrible American expression used in this country.

ma'am is one american import we do need.

A friend owns a bar and he says 'folks' to everyone. I just wondered as in my younger days I worked in hospitality for years and I'm racking my brain to remember how I addressed people. I don't think I ever used sir/miss/madam, just made eye contact with the person I was addressing.

Oh I'm not from the U.K. But one thing I do remember being call from male customers was 'love' it used give me the RAGE. I'm NOT your love.

Perhaps the server has been in prison! Every female working in a male prison (not sure about female prisons) is called 'Miss'!

female teachers were much more likely to be unmarried
My grandma said you couldn’t get/keep a teaching job as a married woman, even if you were a teacher before marriage. 1930s-50s era. I assumed that’s where ‘Miss!’ came from for female teachers.