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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

The MNHQ Moderation team

999 replies

BarrackerBarmer · 18/04/2018 12:51

Dear MNHQ

I'm very grateful for the commitment to free speech you've publicly taken, and for Justine's courage this week.

A former disgruntled employee of MN is writing on Twitter about the 'transphobia' of MN staff, and calling you TERFs. She is showing a great deal of bias and intolerance towards women with feminist views, this may well be her honest opinion, which is no big deal I suppose, since she is no longer an employee.

At least, it isn't an issue until she calls a shout out to her
'friends who still work at MN' to report and take down posts by 'transphobic scum', by which she appears to be referring to any poster objecting to being called TERF by her friend.

Regardless of the personal views of the MNHQ staff, who should be as free to hold their own views as I am mine, I am disturbed that there may be a small contingent of employees who are invested in unfair moderation and will not be applying fair-handed principles, at least if the claims of this ex-employee are credible.

Can you please give posters some reassurance that the difficult job of fair-handed moderation isn't being abused by the 'friends' of ex-employees who are 'reporting it all' and taking down posts because any gender criticism means the poster is 'transphobic scum'?

Thank you.

The MNHQ Moderation team
OP posts:
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8
Haidees · 18/04/2018 21:08

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MrsSchadenfreude · 18/04/2018 21:09

What did she say? "I'm really sorry I was caught?" Confused

Please take legal advice. And legal action if necessary.

RedToothBrush · 18/04/2018 21:09

In the end though it's quite hard to stop someone on the inside who's hellbent on stealing data (not that I think that's what happened here) and that's a risk for every organisation.

Yes, but what you do when that does happen is also important. You can not just say, 'oh well she's sorry'. You enforce when something does happen.

catgirl1976 · 18/04/2018 21:10

GDPR isn't in yet. But a criminal offence under the DPA has still been committed.

My main concern for MN is that employers can be found vicariously liable for data breaches (as Morrisons recently found to their cost). I love MN and I have a huge amount of respect for Justine standing up for free speech, so please take proper, careful advice.

MNHQ
JustineMumsnet · 18/04/2018 21:10

@AssassinatedBeauty

The problem with the apology is that I doubt she really believes that what she did was wrong. She's sorry for having been caught out, she presumably still thinks MN is a hotbed of transphobia.

I think MNHQ is being very charitable towards her. I'd be livid that trust had been broken like this.

I think she is sorry about posting IP addresses - and that was accidental. But yes, I'm sure she thinks her stance on trans rights is absolutely correct and that MN is poorly moderated.

Howyoualldoworkme · 18/04/2018 21:10

As is always said, EH is only 'sorry' because she's been caught Angry
And is shit scared of losing her current job

I'm sure the press is on to it by now anyway

AngryAttackKittens · 18/04/2018 21:10

For all the people trying to minimize how serious this is (which you will note that Justine is not doing), do you really think that comments about how you can see the perspective of the person who leaked the screenshots are likely to effective in convincing anyone that you occupy the ethical high ground on this issue? Because from my perspective what I see is people paying lip service to the idea that doxxing is bad, but then going on to state that they can see why someone would do it if they think the person being doxxed has views they don't approve of.

That's an awfully flexible sense of ethics you have there, and does not make your "side" of this debate look good at all. The urge to punish people for saying things you don't like is not an ethical one at all, nor is it particularly at home in what's meant to be a democratic society.

You are not God, and you do not have the moral authority to smite those you disapprove of.

Melamin · 18/04/2018 21:11

I have worked as a volunteer intern in an area where I was privy to people's personal information. Anything to do with that was left at the door as I was instructed, and cleared from my mind. It is many years since I did it and I have never breathed a word of what I was privy to, let alone hinted at what I knew and certainly never accidently posted screenshots of it on twitter.

It is how I hope people would behave with my data.

MNHQ
JustineMumsnet · 18/04/2018 21:11

@RedToothBrush

In the end though it's quite hard to stop someone on the inside who's hellbent on stealing data (not that I think that's what happened here) and that's a risk for every organisation.

Yes, but what you do when that does happen is also important. You can not just say, 'oh well she's sorry'. You enforce when something does happen.

I agree - hence our taking it very seriously as a breach of contract. I'm not suggesting we're not taking it seriously - I"m just saying that I don't think there's a huge risk of further publication of any data in this instance.

SophoclesTheFox · 18/04/2018 21:12

I'm curious, Justine, if you don't think she stole data, what do you think she did? What was her reasoning?

CircleSquareCircleSquare · 18/04/2018 21:12

though she did have access to user data for a time, I don't think there's any significant risk of a further breach.

I don’t mean to be rude Justine (I’ve made it clear in previous posts that I am grateful for your stance) but as my grandma always a said “you know what Thought did...”

(Stuck a feather in the ground and thought he’d grow a chicken).

Bumblefuddle · 18/04/2018 21:12

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MrsHathaway · 18/04/2018 21:13

I'd be grateful if @JustineMumsnet could advise of the procedure by which a user could request her personal data currently held by MNHQ (including from backups) in advance of GDPR, and whether it would be possible to have some but not all deleted - e.g. delete a postal address previously provided for a competition win, but leave email address for login.

Truscum · 18/04/2018 21:13

I think she is sorry about posting IP addresses - and that was accidental.

Is she sorry about taking screenshots containing users private data while working?

Because that wasn’t accidental was it?

spontaneousgiventime · 18/04/2018 21:14

I think many MNetters will be considering their future here. If people can break the law and be treated with such leniency especially when data was stolen then is MN a safe place for us to be?

Bumblefuddle · 18/04/2018 21:14

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

greenlanes · 18/04/2018 21:14

This is so clearly a report to the ico about personal data breaches. Ip addresses uniquely identify a user.

Mumsnet: if you do not report this breach I will. It is that serious. If you do not understand the gdpr then you have more problems than I realised.

myrtleWilson · 18/04/2018 21:14

But @justineMumsnet if she wanted to expose transphobic viewpoints (from her perspective) she could have screen shotted the same posts from the "public viewpoint" - not the internal member of staff with access to member data viewpoint.

Irrespective of her apology she abused her position at MN and misused data - surely there is more of a comeback than "we accept her apology" (admittedly you may well be pursuing other avenues and you don't have to detail them here but perhaps an assurance that this isn't the end of the matter?)

AssignedPuuurfectAtBirth · 18/04/2018 21:15

She might want to apologise for gross misrepresetation, but I suppose that's too much to ask

Look the TRAs are going to do this Clause 28 bollocks for a while. Fuck them. It's the same lie as the 48% of all trans considering suicide, which turned out to be 48% of 27 trans people in a self selecting survey.

The same lie as lesbians with lady cocks.

Just a few example of barmy bullshit that they expect us to swallow. (Nae pun, cunto)

Fuck them.

MNHQ
JustineMumsnet · 18/04/2018 21:15

@TripleRainbow

@ MNHQ as a side thought, maybe it’s worth looking at a policy favouring older career changers for internships?

Completely agree, and how about focusing on mums? Of the eight mums I know who have had children within the last two years six of them have been made redundant.

I do hope MN pay their interns, giving opportunity everyone and not just people in privileged positions.

Yes we pay the London living wage - amounts to an annual salary of around 20k and yes we are looking at "Mumturnships" (sorry, cringey word) with the option for flexibility.

Vexatious · 18/04/2018 21:15

Bizarre that they're so accepting of her claim that publishing the IP addresses was accidental.

frumpety · 18/04/2018 21:15

Sheesh, who the heck is the accused (gender neutral) related to ? Hmm

AngryAttackKittens · 18/04/2018 21:16

Actually reading Justine's more recent comments..."I'm sorry" is really not an adequate response to this, and should not be taken as such. Please think carefully about the message that you're sending to this person about what conduct is acceptable in the workplace and how important women's safety is in an environment where the internet is used to target women for offline as well as online harassment.

Bumblefuddle · 18/04/2018 21:16

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MNHQ
JustineMumsnet · 18/04/2018 21:17

@greenlanes

This is so clearly a report to the ico about personal data breaches. Ip addresses uniquely identify a user.

Mumsnet: if you do not report this breach I will. It is that serious. If you do not understand the gdpr then you have more problems than I realised.

Hi Greenlanes - as said I'll take further advice on this tomorrow and will let you know where we get to. We're not trying to run away from any obligation here - just don't want to waste anyone's time.