The MNHQ Moderation team

[BarrackerBarmer]

Dear MNHQ

I'm very grateful for the commitment to free speech you've publicly taken, and for Justine's courage this week.

A former disgruntled employee of MN is writing on Twitter about the 'transphobia' of MN staff, and calling you TERFs. She is showing a great deal of bias and intolerance towards women with feminist views, this may well be her honest opinion, which is no big deal I suppose, since she is no longer an employee.

At least, it isn't an issue until she calls a shout out to her
'friends who still work at MN' to report and take down posts by 'transphobic scum', by which she appears to be referring to any poster objecting to being called TERF by her friend.

Regardless of the personal views of the MNHQ staff, who should be as free to hold their own views as I am mine, I am disturbed that there may be a small contingent of employees who are invested in unfair moderation and will not be applying fair-handed principles, at least if the claims of this ex-employee are credible.

Can you please give posters some reassurance that the difficult job of fair-handed moderation isn't being abused by the 'friends' of ex-employees who are 'reporting it all' and taking down posts because any gender criticism means the poster is 'transphobic scum'?

Thank you.

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

Example of how a company should handle a data breach:

Potential security breach of Lakeland website.

Late on Friday July 19th we discovered that the Lakeland website was being attacked by hackers in a sophisticated and sustained attack. Immediate action was taken to block the attack, repair the system and to investigate the damage done and this investigation continues.

Today it has become clear that two encrypted databases were accessed, though we've not been able to find any evidence that the data has been stolen. However, we have decided that it is safest to delete all the customer passwords used on our site and invite customers to reset their passwords next time they visit the Lakeland site. Next time you log-in to your Lakeland account you will be asked to reset your password and provide a new one. It is not necessary to do this straight away, just the next time you want to use the account.

We also advise, as a precaution, that if you use the same password on any other account/s, you should change the passwords on these accounts as soon as possible. We do not know for certain that the hackers succeeded in stealing data, however since there is a theoretical risk and because it is our policy to be open and honest with our customers, we are being proactive in alerting you.

We deeply regret that this has occurred and apologise for the inconvenience caused.

The security of our customers' data is hugely important to us and we are devastated to have fallen victim to these criminals. This has occurred despite the best efforts of ourselves and the industry leading IT company that runs our website for us to use the best security systems available. We are committed to protecting our customers' data and will continue to seek additional measures to ensure the integrity of our systems.

Lakeland had been subjected to a sophisticated cyber-attack using a very recently identified flaw in the Java software used by the servers running our website, and indeed numerous websites around the world. This flaw was used to gain unauthorised access to the Lakeland web system and data. Hacking the Lakeland site has taken a concerted effort and considerable skill. We only wish that those responsible used their talent for good rather than criminal ends.

The attack on the Lakeland website has not impacted our Lakeland stores nor has it impacted our Mail Order Call Centre. In both cases these use separate systems that are not internet based and continue to trade normally.

Any customer concerned about this issue should contact our Customer Services team on 015394 88100, open 8am until 10pm everyday, or email us at [email protected]. We are sincerely grateful for the support of our customers as we deal with the damage done by these criminals.

[RefuseToDenounceBiology]

Don't get your posts deleted peeps - this forum is a fantastic resource for gender critical thought and evidence. Find out what Emma and her mates were/are privy to.

[ILikeyourHairyHands]

Please don't flee.

Don't.

[Juells]

I imagine the kind of top level legal advice and technical support on GDPR, ICO, and IT breaches @JustineMumsnet requires, isn't available at 11 o'clock at night

This news broke around mid-day. Not at 11 o'clock at night. Justine has given no indication she's done anything much beyond contacting the person who published the details, and accepting her apology. She's indicated she doesn't think it's serious.

[VanGoghsDog]

Mumsnet need to report the breach to the ICO who will issue guidance.
In terms of criminal proceedings, the ICO decides on whether to prosecute and their officers follow that up, not the police directly.

GDPR is, technically, already in place as it is an EU Regulation binding on all member states, and it came into effect last year.

[JessicaJonesJacket]

I'm just posting to keep track of MNHQ's responses on this. This entire episode from recruitment to 'apology' raises questions.

[Juells]

VanGoghsDog - that's what I understood from the Irish Data Protection website, I was surprised the same didn't apply here.

[boatyardblues]

This thread looks like it will top out overnight. I really hope MNHQ provide a more detailed response and plan of action tomorrow after they have taken legal advice. I am not satisfied with the current response when the extent of data harvesting is unknown.

[womanhuman]

Threatening Justine didn't work, threatening the advertisers didn't work, so EH has taken this drastic (and evidently pre-meditated) step to frighten women off this forum.

This with bells on.

Justine’s response is hugely inadequate and I want it to be adequate because I want MN to stay.

[Weebo]

I agree with that, Veni.

Justine put her head on the block so we could keep talking recently. I think we kind of owe her a minute to sort this? She's never going to please everyone.

I'm not cheerleading either but I can appreciate the amount of crap that has been piling up at HQ's door this week and now add this.

[HopScotchy]

I'm not happy either. It sounds like they treat data security like a chore that isn't really needed.

[BarrackerBarmer]

I'll start a continuation thread so I can go to bed now!

[Inertia]

An apology from someone who realises too late that they've probably broken the law and royally screwed their career is no guarantee of anything.

'When someone shows you who they are, believe them'- EH has shown that she has stolen and published data which could put the safety of women and children at risk, and she has shown that this was done with malicious intent. She has shown that she set out to do this deliberately. Saying sorry now means nothing - the data leak genie can't be put back in the bottle, and we don't even know what else she's stolen and disseminated that hasn't come to light yet.

[BarrackerBarmer]

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3226060-The-MNHQ-Moderation-Team-Thread-2?watched=1

Continuation thread here

[MagneticMan]

Threatening Justine didn't work, threatening the advertisers didn't work, so EH has taken this drastic (and evidently pre-meditated) step to frighten women off this forum.

Exactly how I see it too.

Hardly coincidence that in the week Justine and MN are lauded for their stance on allowing gender critical debate that Emma Healey leaks information about gender critical MN posters.

I'll start a continuation thread so I can go to bed now!

Thanks OP will placemark post on it before I go to bed.

[BewitchedBotheredandBewildered]

Ihave read most of the thread but got frustrated with it being so long.

Would I be right in thinking that if this person, on their last day working at MN, had scuttled round and stolen everyone's handbag/purse, the police would have been called immediately and they would have been found and arrested?

Would I also be right in thinking that actually what they have done is much worse?

So why are they still at liberty, and why has all their hardware not been impounded?

[BewitchedBotheredandBewildered]

IT hardware obvs.

Not pots and pans.

[VeniVidiVickiQV]

This news broke around mid-day. Not at 11 o'clock at night. Justine has given no indication she's done anything much beyond contacting the person who published the details, and accepting her apology. She's indicated she doesn't think it's serious.

Justine has posted several times this evening, after posts from folks with information on GDPR and IP address qualification in relation to breached data that she will look at this tomorrow. It appears to have been ignored, and it is being assumed that the advice is being ignored. I believe it is appropriate for Justine to be cautious about what she says on a public forum in regard to this, until she has sought further advice. Midday today still only really gave 5 business hours to deal with this. People's financial data isn't at risk - like in the case of Lakeland posted about below. Nor is there a risk of potential identity fraud. So the limits to urgency in this case are what they are. Let's be patient, and understanding of the logistics of this, is all I'm saying.

[DanaBarrett]

@justinemumsnet hi, I’m sorry to tag you, but I’d like to highlight something that you said basically not wanting to cause extra work for people.

I’m from a background of enforcement and proactive compliance work. We were VERY busy on a constant basis. BUT what caused us more work was people not raising issues with us before going elsewhere. The ICO really can be your best source here, they are specialists in the legislation and how to deal with it. Mumsnet could really save themselves and plenty of others an awful lot of work, by working with them now rather than waiting for them to come to you.

[AngryAttackKittens]

Justine’s response is hugely inadequate and I want it to be adequate because I want MN to stay.

Agreed. I hope there are plans underfoot that just aren't being shared yet.

[DarthArts]

I understand the frustration - but for goodness sake let MNHQ handle this right not quickly.

What the hell do you expect?

I would like a response on facts not platitudes.

@JustineMumsnet thank you for your posts to date.

[AngryAttackKittens]

Or afoot, even. Sleep clearly needed.

[womanformallyknownaswoman]

It's very clear that young woman has been weaponised by the "erase-women" ideology, using trans activism(sic) as a cover. Incidents like this are designed to divide the opposition in order to conquer them. It's part of the "erase women" fightback - of that I have no doubt. Don't let them succeed. This is a very stupid, vulnerable young woman (though she won't see that yet) who has been subjected to undue influence. Just like the exiled Scientologists tell, when under the influence of the cult, they would threaten and assault others. Ultimately it's the cult leader(s) who are responsible, not their lackeys. I'm not diminishing her part - she will pay a high price for that, no doubt. But all is not as it seems on the surface. There are other influences at play behind the scene - the puppet-masters.

Stay united as part of the resistance. Stay calm.

Read Shock Tactics by Naomi Klein. What "erase-women" want now, in the aftermath of the shock, is for confusion on our part and dissemblance. Then they can move in and gain more territory - they want a clampdown. Don't give them that. Stay United with MN. Yes it's serious but rely on the fact that MN is sorting it.


Irrespective, I recommend only using an anonymous email address online anywhere - so play smart and change yours if necessary plus change your passwords. As the recent FB debacle has shown - having any personal data online is not sensible in any form as there are no safeguards anywhere that are "safe". No one wants to tell you this as it destabilises a brand and a business - any brand and any business.

So yes reassurances are needed nevertheless do take whatever action you need to stay safe online yourself - don't rely on any corporate to do that for you. It's not sensible. Like the justice system, it doesn't provide the cover that is needed, despite any assurances.

And stay calm and united on here to see this latest storm out. It will pass...

[Jeanhatchet]

This is extremely serious.

Not least because a number of women have been placed at risk. For women with abusive men in their backgrounds the potential for it to be a fatal mistake and subsequent risk is ever-present. This may also put her children at risk. Family annihilation is not uncommon. Women leave an abuser's entire sphere for a reason. Refuges locate women away from an area - FOR A REASON. Exposing that is life-threatening.

For women with careers where free expression of online views breaches company policy they may lose jobs. Trans activists have openly targeted women who dissent from their ideological position by targeting their employment. They have zero care about what will happen as a result to the children of those women when they lose jobs. TAs have shown how ruthless they can be in this.

Beyond that - for women who were possibly unaware that they were posting in a way that might threaten their life, career, children, this will have been a terrifying experience. The sheer terror of suddenly being thrown into the full realisation of what declaring your view - that your biological sex is real - is an expensive declaration (with costs to your present and future existence) is overwhelming for some. Women have yet to become attuned to the bigger picture of all this. It is a dystopian future in the all too present.

For those with mental ill-health the threat to their security is extremely damaging. The already anxious will have been escalated.

Women come with complex background situations. Demanding they are aware of more technical aspects of online connectivity which helps them - demanding they use VPN etc - will be too much and they may withdraw from an online communication lifeline. A literal lifeline. What women say in trust on MN may be a front for an awful RL experience and they may be gaining the information to free themselves. If those women withdraw from the network of support then the woman breaching data has been responsible for returning women to a life with abusers where they feel no glimmer of hope. That is a daily loss of hope. That is daily misery she's imposed.

This woman may apologise. That is not quite enough.

It is important that she realises the extent of her mistake. She could attempt to realise just exactly how she has been used to harm other women and she could realise the misogyny in that. If she does then the best thing she can do to repair this horrific damage is to share with the world - not the views of violent males intent upon harming women as this was - but exactly how those males are exploiting and pressuring her.

If she denies that this is the case. Then she has no way of being forgiven by women. She may not be forgiven anyway. She probably will be prosecuted because whether MN do it as employer - women can and should if pursue this independently. It is their right to pursue crimes against them. Women have no obligation to compassion when they are harmed. It is not a biological trait.

If it was me - I probably would not insist another woman was prosecuted - especially a woman manipulated by males. I'd try to find a way to make the males using her accountable. Maybe there's a way to do that.

But ..... that woman would have to do something far more significant to help the women's movement in return for some sort of forgiveness than a brief "Soz like" ...before running back to the comfortable shelter of her manipulators to gather their cookies for her work in harming and exposing women to danger.

Mumsnet need to do more. Much more. Great harm has been done here.

These are not times where women can afford to look to one side when they are under attack.

MN must declare what they will do beyond a simple acceptance of apology.