Behold! The new liberation movement (or know your enemy)

[Jog22]

www.slideshare.net/mobile/RowanDavis4/how-to-deal-with-terfs-93651217

Work with transsexuals, and studies of formation of gender identity in children provide basic information which challenges the notion that there are two discrete biological sexes. That information threatens to transform the traditional biology of sex difference into the radical biology of sex similarity… Every transsexual is entitled to a sex-change operation, and it should be provided by the community as one of its functions." Andrea Dworkin (this person has a lot to answer for)

In what context does this mean anything other than what it says?

How come no-one has posted any comments in response to the How to deal with Terfs post? Or are they shutting everyone else down?

The hatred for women and the refusal to listen to our opinions is very very depressing.

1. Why is SWERF included at the beginning? This is about trans not about prostition / sex work isn't it? I think it's there to push an idea that these TERF people not only hate trans people and want to kill them, but also hate prostituted people (mainly girls and women) all over the world. ie they are horrible horrible meany people.

1. Sex based oppression is imaginary? Well it's not fucking surprise that so many feminsits (and women who wouldn't call themselves feminists) find themselves opposed to this. How can anyone sit there with a straight face and deny that sex based oppression exists? I have seen it's to be remodeled "gender based oppression" meaning that people who identify with long hair and glitter are oppressed by those who identify with short hair and football, but no-one knows what the basis for this is. I am also unclear whether the oppression manifests if the person who identifies with, does not present as.

1. "Fighting alongside action for trans health - I assume that is literal - I think it was one of their people who has been convicted of assault?

So that's an official document for NUS is it, that sex doesn't exist and there's no such thing as sex based oppression. How do they support their female students with female specific issues / ones that are far more common to women? They don't?

Rowan Davis and Eden Ladley the authors of this work of fiction were both born with male reproductive systems. So there you have it, two people with penis's are telling all people with vagina's that we don't experience discrimination on the basis of being vagina havers. The arrogance of it.

The Dworkin appropriation is troubling and it seems that her life partner John Stoltenberg has been instrumental in reframing her ideas since, it would seem, he has been played like a fiddle by her pro-porn adversaries.

Here's a blog about it www.theturfwarzone.com/
"John, I know your sincere desire is to bring Andrea’s ideas to a broader audience. But you have not done justice to Andrea by inserting her name into this frenzied quagmire of controversy, effectively pitting her against radical activists who were her allies in life, on the front lines of the war against women. These, her passionate friends and colleagues, the ones who stood by her when no one else would, are betrayed and justifiably outraged by actions you've taken in Andrea Dworkin’s name."

Nikki Craft also wrote this public Facebook post about it m.facebook.com/notes/nikki-craft/the-worst-kind-of-betrayal-what-john-stoltenberg-did-to-andrea-dworkin/162074477509339/

It does seem ludicrous that Dworkin's visceral discriptions of men wanting to 'control the uterus' would be compatible with males being part of the female sex class.

An observation -

As we see from #metoo and similar, many men do indeed believe that there's no such thing as sex based oppression. Because they don't listen to women, or if they do they dismiss what we say.

Many men do only seem to be capable of caring about women and girls that they presonally know, the rest are somewhat 2D and irrelevant.

Irrelevant until they have the temerity to say no to a man, or argue with him, and then they are the worst of the worst.

Many men do only seem to be capable of caring about women and girls that they presonally know, the rest are somewhat 2D and irrelevant.

Spot on.

Irrelevant until they have the temerity to say no to a man, or argue with him, and then they are the worst of the worst.

And this!

A training document is not 'an official NUS document', a presentation given at a conference that people are free to act on or disagree with.

One trans person being convicted for assault (whom the judge admitted had been excessively provoked) does not mean we should write off the whole movement. Some women kill men we wouldn't for a second allow men to get away with that reductive bollocks - this is a strawman.

whom the judge admitted had been excessively provoked

Can you not even bring yourself to condemn male violence against women?

Excessively provoked? That's not actually what the judge said (the excessively bit), so it's interesting that you added that. Is it that you think there's a non-excessive level of provocation, or that you just thought your point needed a bit more oomph?

Men have been arguing that women provoked them in domestic violence cases for years. Normally decent people look at that and recognize that no matter how "provoked" a person feels that doesn't mean it's OK for them to punch someone. When a person argues provocation to assault they're telling us some interesting things about them.

Indeed. There is always the option to walk away.

There is also always a difference in the way things are taken. So boss saying the same thing... and people/men will suck it up. But a women saying it means its 'excessive provocation'.

The problem here is not what was said or done. It's the expectation that the women should have stfu. The the expectation that having NOT stfu, she is now guilty and deserves what's dished out to her.

We see that all over the internet where women get rape threats and abuse but men don't, even when they say the same thing.

She didn't provoke her assault. Let's get that clear. And yes, "provocation" has traditionally been used to excuse male violence in court for centuries.

One of the author's of the slideshow who is part of NUS Women's demonstrates full support & activism for T Wood before and after conviction.

They seem active (as a non binary trans woman) on the creation of policies which ensure the exclusion of female born people who identify as trans men (for whom there seems little provision).

They have highlighted a forthcoming WPUK meeting in Oxford and friends seem likely to protest rather than engage...

WPUK
This is a campaign formed specifically to ensure women’s voices are heard in the debate around proposals to change the Gender Recognition Act (2004).

We have 5 fair and reasonable demands to ensure that this happens.
We have produced some resources to help you be part of the campaign.
We are organising public meetings all over the UK.
We are talking to as many people as we can.
We believe that respectful dialogue is vital if we are to achieve a progressive law which upholds the rights of everyone.