Feminist playgroup mention of TERFs...

[doricgirl]

A trial feminist playgroup to discuss feminist, equality and gender norms has been set up where I live and I was/am really excited about the prospect of discussing all of these issues with like minded people and not have to shut down that part of me now I’m a parent.

It was really interesting but the noticed at the end on one of the discussion boards someone had commented about TERFs being an issue and dithering about how to approach it.

I am really fine in that specific space to agree to disagree but I find the term TERF really offensive and don’t want it to be acceptable use in the group if i continue - not sure how/it to challenge if it comes up or to maybe contact the organiser to discuss?

In the rest of my life I run a women’s charity and have fairly strong views about the necessity of women only spaces and have been worn down by the continuing pressure to justify these spaces and losing out on funding due to not offering men’s services so I don’t think I’m capable of shutting up completely and I also don’t want my daughter to think it’s an ok term.

Any thoughts or advice are very welcome

Have you been in a situation before where you had to “out” yourself? Are you skilled at winning allies?

Or do you just get cross like me?

Can you start a discussion about not using slurs?

Have you seen this thread - these are real people being called terfs and having their work ruined as result.

ttps:twitter.com/LucyLoveslife1/status/973852316787933184

Circulate this and see if they still think terfs are an issue afterwards.

Surely they need to discuss how they will exclude certain who may or may not be Feminists who do not comply with the 5th rule of misogyny: Women and Feminists must be useful to men or they are worthless.

I think I might contact the organiser in private and explain that I found the term exclusionary. It’s frustrating if there’s someone already in place trying to drive an anti rad-fem agenda. I honestly find it shocking just how aggressive their activism is. Presumably they can’t allow it any space because as soon as logic enters, the majority might see the truth.

Helen Lewis just tweeted a bunch of stuff that is perfect for you to reflect on:

Helen Lewis @ helenlewis
For the sake of my blood pressure, I normally let this kind of stuff go. But no, come on. “Tired”? Tell that to FGM survivors, women sacked for being pregnant, those having an abortion after rape or incontinent after a childbirth fistula in the developing world.

Congratulations on being so privileged that having a uterus and vagina has apparently never affected your life. But don’t tell me that anyone talking about the material reality of millions of women & girls is “basic”.

Gordrand @ luxpork
Not sure if you saw but she just deleted this

Helen Lewis @ helenlewis
I’m beyond done with the lazy name-calling and casual abuse this subject attracts. “TERF” is a misogynistic insult, and I’m not even trans-exclusionary. Trans women are women. It’s just that I also think it’s OK for feminists to talk about female biology as a source of sexism.

Basic point: talking about biology majes you a terf. I am struggling to really work out what the real point of feminism is, if biology is not allowed to be discussed. Using the word is dangerous for women, as it encourages its use at the expense of being able to discuss important issues.

'terf' has become a sexist slur and insult.. language matters and is a feminist concern. Surely it would be a good discussion point? There are other words specific to women that have been similarly used!
James Kirkup got it in The Spectator article:

"If this was simply a story of a small number of nasty people online and – sometimes – on the street doing bad things to women who speak up about a political issue, I suspect this problem wouldn’t persist. The relevant legal and political authorities would indeed pay attention to that fear, and maybe even do something, even if that was just listening to those women, meeting them, answering their questions.

But that doesn’t seem to be happening. It’s because those women have been – quite successfully and even skilfully – demonised and stigmatised, put beyond the pale of civilised debate as those who question orthodoxy often are. They’ve been given a name, a name that means they’re bad people, people who should not speak and should not be heard. That name is “Terf,” which once meant “Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminist” but now appears to stand in its own right as a term of abuse and dismissal alongside the other short, harsh words often used to question the worth and virtue of women.

And that small number of people who direct violence and abuse at “Terfs” are swimming in a larger sea of contempt and dismissal. Their conduct takes place in a social context where hostility to “Terfs” has become not just normal but even amusing, where there is no social cost to talking about and perhaps even inciting violence towards women who hold “unacceptable” views. Simply, some people, including people who would never themselves engage in that sort of violence, are doing things that make violent discourse and even violence look and feel OK. Sadly, they include journalists and politicians, people who parade their support for minority groups but speak about feminist women in terms they would never use about other people."

I would join in with the libfem nuttery to help peak trans others. Whenever you see the term terfs mentioned you could say, "can someone please explain terfs to me? Am I right in understanding that these people actually would want to allow a transgender woman who has been convicted of rape to stay in a male prison?"

You could have a lot of fun. "I've heard that these TERFs object to the term front hole because they say a vagina is a passage. That can't be right? People like this exist?"

Terf just means female that talks about biology. Thats it.

Nothing to do with trans issues.

Presumably they can’t allow it any space because as soon as logic enters, the majority might see the truth.

I think you've hit the nail on the head there. It is shockingly aggressive how transactivists colonise female spaces.

Red. There you are making perfect sense.

You could have a lot of fun. "I've heard that these TERFs object to the term front hole because they say a vagina is a passage. That can't be right? People like this exist?"

Agree with this suggestion!

Which is why aerating their objections to the fore is useful.

"Are terfs those people who criticised that trans activist who attacked Rose Byrne, because he happened to be a paedophile?"

Yes. Do that.

And Maria, 60, who was assaulted at Speakers Corner for talking about women rights. By a man. Tanis Woolf, about half her age.

Are Terfs those people who question statistics which cite high suicide rates of transgender children, and quote the Tavistock who said there's only been one suicide in the last ten years?

Oh I've heard of terfs. They're the ones who say that statistically it's safer for a man to transition as the murder rate for trans women in the UK is so low. Also I think they say trans women are more likely to be murderers than be murdered.

We don't want any of those types round 'ere!

My autocorrect is trying to de terf me. It keeps putting transwomen as two words!

Plus anyway women and girls have too many rights, time to give some of them.

notthenewsinbriefs.wordpress.com/2018/04/05/have-women-and-girls-got-too-many-rights/

These people don't like terfs either - the blonde is Tanis Woolf.

www.facebook.com/womansplaceuk/videos/575443279476529

Are Terfs those people who think women weren't excluded from sport because of their feelings of femininity? They think segregated women's sport was created because of their bodies? So transmisogynistixclusionarycissexiselfish!

Play them a bit of Rapey J Penis

Some excellent resources on here. I say join, and patiently explain you're fighting for women and girls. Who are disadvantaged because of their biology - and who are being banned from talking about their biology, their own reality, by people shouting terf.

The transwoman shouting 'terf, terf, terf' along with other obscenities, before she/he was pushed aside by a policeman, is in court tomorrow for punching a 60yr old woman.

Hardly something we want to aspire to.

They’ve been given a name, a name that means they’re bad people, people who should not speak and should not be heard. That name is “Terf,” which once meant “Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminist” but now appears to stand in its own right as a term of abuse and dismissal alongside the other short, harsh words often used to question the worth and virtue of women.

If it can be argued by many an activist that the meaning of words change (and there is no denying they evolve over time but not at the rapid rate they are suggesting the meaning of and established and grounded “woman” has changed) at the rate they suggest, then surely we can use the same argument back and say the meaning (of the new and not generally previously societally accepted) of TERF has changed from the original descriptor to a slur word.

TERF has far less grounding in our language, in our brains than “woman” so we can argue that we are at the forefront of deciding what defines it and they themselves have proved with their constant use of it that it has changed from a mere description to a slur.

If on one hand they say so readily that words and meanings change and apply it to “woman” then they must also accept that it is more than equally applicable to the far yes established word (and it’s used as a word so often, I see it as accepted as such) “TERF”.

@doricgirl I've sent you a pm