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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Help me think it through

21 replies

minniebear · 10/04/2018 14:20

So I’ve read and read around the transgender issue and feel like I’m getting straight in my head.

I can see that some people feel they are born into the wrong gender/sex. That said, gender stereotypes need abolishing: pink/blue brains don’t exist, men and women are socialised (not wired) differently, sex is a black/white neutral fact confirmed by a DNA test, and to see sex as a feeling/belief is regressive in my eyes. A man in a dress/with long hair should be allowed to crack on, but it doesn’t make him female because he hasn’t had an experience of female socialisation growing up. Gender stereotypes should be moved from not towards. Basing a trans rhetoric on a belief system and expecting others to compromise to unquestioningly accommodate your beliefs is narcissistic.

Treating young children as trans when they don’t conform to their born gender can have physical and mental consequences in the long term (hormones/puberty blockers). Are parents becoming more likely to take young children at their word in general? Have we reached a point where people are too afraid to question this issue in particular? Are we prioritising the maintenance of a child’s self esteem over open and honest discussion? The fact a confused teen can go online and find a supportive community that could sway them in a direction they wouldn’t have gone on their own is a worry. At ten when I was teased for developing breasts early and for the subsequent two years when I bound my chest, I would have been grateful to find a community online who understood how much I hated the way my body was developing.

Personally, I have used communal toilets and not had any issue-it doesn’t bother me at all. But that isn’t the case for all women, and any woman who doesn’t want to share a space in which she feels vulnerable shouldn’t be made to without question or exception. During both of my pregnancies, my experiences of examination and care with male obstetricians were far, far more respectful and positive than the care I personally received from female midwives and obstetricians. I wouldn’t have any kind of issue receiving obstetric or gynacological care from a male professional in the future. But that is my experience, and plenty of women feel the opposite and should be respected if they seek female healthcare professionals.

Men have gone and continue to go to great lengths to gain access to what they shouldn’t have. Paedophiles groom children for years. Signing a form to indicate that you live as a woman (especially when you don’t need any kind of diagnosis or to prove that you’re living as a woman) is far easier than the things men have done in the past to gain access to vulnerable people.

Women have suffered at the hands of men for years. They shouldn’t now suffer at the hands of a subsection of men. Transactivision is misogyny repackaged-still women are being required to step aside. Trans women aren’t women, they are a subgroup of men, as can be proven by a DNA test.

As someone who coaches sports to club level I’m familiar with the frustration of girls training as often and hard as the boys in their squad, before inevitably even the boys who didn’t work as hard became physically bigger and stronger in puberty and beat the girls by miles. The fact they can then compete against other teenage girls keeps the playing field fair, and to compete against a teenage boy would destroy interest in the sport.

One person’s needs shouldn’t trump another’s. If a transgender person doesn’t feel safely/respectfully accommodated with his/her own sex, that’s not a reason to make others feel compromised by taking over their own safe spaces.

Gender dysmorphia is a recognised mental condition and a person suffering from it needs support and help. But as a recovering bulimic, I’m not sure that their struggle should be prioritised over other forms of body dysmorphia.

Men are starting to become increasingly aware of the struggle we face when they come up against transwomen who don’t identify themselves as such on dating websites. Men are feeling frustrated that they get to know a person for a couple of weeks before that person reveals themselves to be equipped with a penis. The cynic on me believes that when this issue starts to impact men’s access to sex, we might see movement on a bigger scale.

Excuse my rambling. I need to set my head straight before I can start conversations with those around me in RL.

OP posts:
Datun · 10/04/2018 15:19

Sounds like you've nailed it, to me.

Freshlylaidterf · 10/04/2018 15:23

agreed

Ereshkigal · 10/04/2018 15:23

Yes was going to say exactly that.

LangCleg · 10/04/2018 15:49

I think you have it covered!

BeUpStanding · 10/04/2018 16:03

Yep sounds bang on to me too

Badgerthebodger · 10/04/2018 17:18

Gold star for Minniebear you’ve got it all covered there, plus you have managed it quite succinctly!

SarahAr · 10/04/2018 19:18

Trans women aren’t women, they are a subgroup of men, as can be proven by a DNA test.

OP by your logic XY women (e.g. those with CAIS) are also a subgroup of men - and are being narcissistic if they wish to use the women's toilet.

minniebear · 10/04/2018 19:18

I shall go forth and feel like I’ve got my head straight when I speak to people. Cheers all.

OP posts:
SarahAr · 10/04/2018 19:20

To handle the issue of women with CAIS, you need to adjust your definition to be instead anyone who has not experience male privilege.

minniebear · 10/04/2018 19:21

SarahAr thank you for this, I’ll go and do a bit more research. Apologies if I’ve offended anyone, I posted to test the water and see if I understand what I think I understand, so am grateful for any critical thinking opportunities.

OP posts:
minniebear · 10/04/2018 19:22

Thank you SarahAr, that does make sense.

OP posts:
0phelia · 10/04/2018 19:51

Has Jazz Jennings experienced male privilege?

minniebear · 10/04/2018 19:58

Has Jazz Jennings experienced the lack of privalege that comes with being female (and not famous)?

OP posts:
minniebear · 10/04/2018 20:00

*privilege

OP posts:
Ereshkigal · 10/04/2018 20:12

Intersex people have frequently requested transactivists to stop conflating intersex with trans issues. They are not the same.

Beyond11cisRetinol · 10/04/2018 20:22

"Trans women aren’t women, they are a subgroup of men, as can be proven by a DNA test."

I missed where that sentence mentioned DSDs?

SarahAr · 10/04/2018 20:43

Intersex people have frequently requested transactivists to stop conflating intersex with trans issues

Ereshkigal - by this intersex people mean they object to transgender people describing being trans as an intersex condition which is fair enough.

I was not conflating the two. I was making the serious point that definitions based on DNA fall apart with intersex people. (I don't like to use DSD even though it is the medical term as intersex people object to it).

In the US a number of proposed anti-trans pieces of legislation used DNA based definitions and would have inadvertently caught intersex people.

minniebear · 10/04/2018 21:08

There needs to be a distinction with intersex people.

OP posts:
Kyanite · 10/04/2018 21:16

There's those who suffer from gender dysmorphia who want to change their body and those who think their male bodies are female and don't want to change.

Ereshkigal · 10/04/2018 21:56

by this intersex people mean they object to transgender people describing being trans as an intersex condition which is fair enough.

Many of them also don't appreciate being dragged in to validate trans identity.

Ereshkigal · 10/04/2018 22:00

The fact is that CAIS women have been socialised as girls. They never knew any different. Male and female are valid categories, whatever transactivists choose to pretend. This affects health issues. Heart disease frequently presents differently in male people and the symptoms are often sadly missed in women due to this.

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