Huge new study of trans people released.

[crispbuttyfan]

thinkprogress.org/what-we-know-transgender-surgery-72ae4737545a/

1. The scholarly literature makes clear that gender transition is effective in treating gender dysphoria and can significantly improve the well-being of transgender individuals.

1. Among the positive outcomes of gender transition and related medical treatments for transgender individuals are improved quality of life, greater relationship satisfaction, higher self-esteem and confidence, and reductions in anxiety, depression, suicidality, and substance use.

1. The positive impact of gender transition on transgender well-being has grown considerably in recent years, as both surgical techniques and social support have improved.

1. Regrets following gender transition are extremely rare and have become even rarer as both surgical techniques and social support have improved. Pooling data from numerous studies demonstrates a regret rate ranging from .3 percent to 3.8 percent. Regrets are most likely to result from a lack of social support after transition or poor surgical outcomes using older techniques.

1. Factors that are predictive of success in the treatment of gender dysphoria include adequate preparation and mental health support prior to treatment, proper follow-up care from knowledgeable providers, consistent family and social support, and high-quality surgical outcomes (when surgery is involved).

1. Transgender individuals, particularly those who cannot access treatment for gender dysphoria or who encounter unsupportive social environments, are more likely than the general population to experience health challenges such as depression, anxiety, suicidality and minority stress. While gender transition can mitigate these challenges, the health and well-being of transgender people can be harmed by stigmatizing and discriminatory treatment.

1. An inherent limitation in the field of transgender health research is that it is difficult to conduct prospective studies or randomized control trials of treatments for gender dysphoria because of the individualized nature of treatment, the varying and unequal circumstances of population members, the small size of the known transgender population, and the ethical issues involved in withholding an effective treatment from those who need it.

1. Transgender outcomes research is still evolving and has been limited by the historical stigma against conducting research in this field. More research is needed to adequately characterize and address the needs of the transgender population.

I isn't a huge new study. It is a review of existing studies.

I agree that any treatment proven to be beneficial, is great. Anything to lower the statistics of suicide and self harm. I don't think anyone has ever disputed that treatment can alleviate symptoms.

But, cording to GIRES the number of men identifying as women because they have gender dysphoria is tiny.

I'm absolutely sure that medical treatment to alleviate the symptoms of gender dysphoria is correct. You only have to read the accounts from gender dysphoric people to understand that.

GIRES (a trans org) estimates that 1 in 100 people in the UK are transgender, but only 1 in 14,000 males and 1 in 38,000 females is transsexual (in the sense that they suffer from severe and acute gender dysphoria that can only be alleviated by feminising/masculinising the body and living according to their idea of what it means to be a woman/man).

So, firstly, what has that got to do with women's sex-based rights?

And secondly, other than gender dysphoria, what reason is there to transition?

I always think about John Pilley whenever people talk about no regret among those who have surgery.

He was the first prisoner who had sex change surgery on the NHS. He later moved to a woman's prison.

Then he identified as a man again and moved back to a male prison where he had another sex change operation.

I suspect that both of his surgeries were deemed to be a success.

Wonder how he feels about it now. Suing the NHS and the prison service probably.

Who’s tying to stop trans people from transitioning???

We’re just saying that transitioning doesn’t ACTUALLY make you change sex and we need some sex based protections.

Also that we need to approach the transing of children very carefully and a social transition rather than a medical one may be most appropriate, with the medical transitioning of minors being the very last resort.

My son has autism. He would be immensely helped by the rest of the world slowing down, being quiet, refraining from using perfume and never, ever ringing the doorbell, shouting at him unexpectedly, playing loud music or trying to look him in the eye.

That would significantly improve his wellbeing.

It would be shitty for the rest of society, though, so he doesn't get what he wants, except in a few well-controlled environments.

He is as valuable and valid a human being as any on earth, but he doesn't get to claim to be the new progressive form of NT and dictate what all NT people should do to include him.

Am I missing something here?

@crispbuttyfan

GIRES - know GIRES yes? GIRES has submitted evidence to the Transgender Equality Enquiry that of the 100 in 10,000 who are trans in the UK

which is our focus because the law change is a UK law change

so far only 5 out of that 100 in the UK have sought ANY MEDICAL HELP AT ALL (THIS INCLUDES THERAPY)

And GIRES says based on international research and statistics that eventually 20 out of that 100 trans people in the UK will access medical help.

Accessing medical help does not mean medically transitioning all the way to SRS btw. But let's assume for a second that it does. It means that eventually the vast majority of trans people in the UK will continue to be non-med and non-op. They are those for whom gender expression is enough.

Who are you to declare that eventually all trans people will medically transition? I've been told by other trans people that opinion is transphobic.

Who are you to devalue all those who do not plan to medically transition by declaring that eventually they all will do so? I've been told by other trans people that opinion is transphobic.

Who are you to claim that currently 80% of that 1% request surgery? What is this based on? That 1% is 650,000 people. The UK waiting list for surgery has 120+ people on it. That is fact. Jaycee told us yesterday the numbers that have surgery have remained steady for almost half a century. It was about 100 per year 40 years ago, over the last decade it still was that number.

So given all of the above, we are back where we started. With half a million non-med, non-op trans people. So a quarter of a million fully functioning males who trans activists demand we accept as women.

Why should we?

That's great. What about all the women with the lady penis' who want free access to natal women's safe spaces? As this is what the issue is, not the people who have dysphoria and go through full surgery.

Langleg, your opposing claims are just as much fantasy, it is based on nothing more than perception or projection.
As I already said, has everyone actually asked all trans people?

There are currently ~ 300,000 to 500,000 trans people in the uk seeking treatment. Currently due to lack of surgeons and resources a less than 300 surgeries are completed each year.
Less than 1% of those being treated.

There is no doubt the numbers of those requesting treatment has sky-rocketed in the last few years, many of which will be no where near a waiting list, it can still take up to 3 years for some people to be even assessed in some GIC's then Real life experience evidence before they are considered for surgery....
The number of surgeries permitted can not keep up with demand or even close.

Those that appose affirmation and treatment, are sometimes the same people who complain about whether or not trans people have had treatment or surgeries.

Really pleased that treatments for gender dysphoria work and are improving.

Plus eveything LangCleg said.

Charley parlet, I just answered why surgery numbers have stayed stagnant, There are less than 15 surgeons in the uk currently working in this field.

"There are currently ~ 300,000 to 500,000 trans people in the uk seeking treatment."

Wow, those are huge numbers. I'm guessing that those are not exact numbers, therefore the big number range.

What treatment are they seeking? Counselling? Medical? Surgical?

Do you have a link?

Charley parlet, I just answered why surgery numbers have stayed stagnant, There are less than 15 surgeons in the uk currently working in this field.

That must be difficult. And of course there are a huge percentage who don't want surgery at all. Although both are separate issues to natal women's rights to safe spaces of course.

I just don’t see how this is relevant.

Have the surgery, I fully support the right for trans people to transition if they wish.

But it doesn’t alter their sex and we should be allowed to rettain the, let’s face it very few, sex based protections that women need.

Like I’ve said a million times, I’ll fight for trans people’s access to good medical care.

Langleg, your opposing claims are just as much fantasy, it is based on nothing more than perception or projection

My fantasy projection? Or the fantasy projection of The American Society of Plastic Surgeons, who collated the statistics for the surgeries their members had performed and then put out a press release about them?

I'm all for affirmation, and for treatment for those who want or need it. I know lots of really lovely trans people, some of whom have had treatment. I've never met anyone trans that I didn't like (Twitter is another matter).

However, I still have some concerns. I have a colleague who has risen to the top of her profession while dealing with the physical effects of fertility treatment, raising children, complications of menopause etc., in a traditionally male dominated field, through decades of everyday sexism. If anyone deserves a MyField-of-the-Year award, she does. Many of us could point to similarly inspiring women in our professional lives. To see such awards open to anyone who identifies as a woman, which could include a recently-self-identifying non-med non-op trans woman, feels like a trivialisation of the rampant sexism still experienced throughout women's lives.

I'm very willing to affirm people who live with the difficulties of being trans. I don't want to trivialise that either. I just don't think it's quite the same thing as living with the difficulties of institutional sexism. As usual, I'm on the fence and trying to think things through without pissing anyone off. If any of that was offensive, I apologise.

GIRES, the UK Gender Identity Research and Education Society, says your numbers are pure fantasy crispybuttyfan.

So far a total 30,000 people have sought any medical help at all.

THIRTYTHOUSAND.

These thirtythousand people have gone to see their GP. The first step for many is therapy and hormones - if that is what they wish.

Bottom surgery is the very last step for a tiny number of people.

This is true everywhere in the world.

But do you want to know why we will not believe your numbers? Quite aside the fact that they contradict the actual existing numbers I mean?

Simples

We have been re-educated by a very large number of trans activists and trans allies, like Owen Jones for instance, how transphobic it is to assume trans means transsexual as you do. How transphobic it is to expect trans people to do more than just transition socially as you do.

We have listened well. Our children have also been educated at school.

Trans includes anyone and everyone who is gender-non-conforming. Apart from lesbians, gays, bisexuals and GNC women obviously.
But everyone else who claims trans is trans.

Eddie Izzard - trans
Alex Drummond - trans
Philip/Pippa Bunce - trans

Non-med, non-op men accepted by the trans community as trans.

Do you have a problem with them being trans?

And as usual, I mistyped in my haste: I meant to say MyField-Woman-of-the-Year. Anyone else get stressed and incoherent on this topic? Just me?

crispbuttyfan

I seriously don't understand what you're saying. GIRES a trans advocacy website, has said that one in 100 people say they are transgender, but one in 52,000 are dysphoric.

You're saying that the reason people aren't having surgery is because there aren't enough surgeons.

But what reason would someone, who did not have gender dysphoria, have for surgery to make them look like the opposite sex?

It's not a rhetorical question. What is the answer?

MonsterSister having an autistic brother I have a tiny notion of what you are going through. I wish you strength and joy and hope for you and your son

What you are missing is that neither you nor your son believe his rights override the rights of all others, no matter what.

Definitely not CardsforKittens

As a systematic review, the study was fairly weak. The inclusion criteria were very broad

"Study Design: Any peer-reviewed study that undertook an evaluative (quantitative or qualitative) assessment of relevant outcomes for the population of interest; we did not impose requirements regarding minimum length of follow-up or other aspects of the study design"

Moat Systematic Reviews have much tighter criteria vis a vis the applicability and quality of the research. For example, were there control groups, parameters for statistical significance, etc?

Also, the research question was very broad - rather too broad for a robust SR. Basically they were looking for any research re outcomes. As they admit, studies did not even have to be longitudinal (i.e. have follow-ups).

The study appears more like a narrative review in many ways.

I suspect that a proper SR of the literature would reveal what we actually know - i.e. there are few robust studies on the topic.

Of course, we also know that the field is biased and skewed by the fact that academics and health care professionals are shut down if they attempt to consider any negative outcomes from transitioning - cf the Bath Spa University case.

YetAnotherSpartacus excellent summary, thanks.

In addition, I'd like to point out that existing studies are evaluating outcomes for patients before affirmation became the one and only acceptable response to a declaration of being trans.

As several of the transsexuals on this forum have told us, the process they went through was lengthy, careful, accompanied by therapy at every step - if anything it erred on the side of caution. Given how serious SRS is, that is understandable. First do no harm.

Now trans activists are actively campaigning against the need for therapy. If this succeeds I expect to see the regret rate rising (and we have anecdotal evidence of this happening already, but no new studies as of yet). On the NHS I would think that caution will continue to be part of the treatment ethos but in the US?

I've just started to skim through some of the articles in the so-called systematic review. I can't see any basis for enough similarity in objectives, method and quality to be included in a single SR. For example, one concerns facial feminisation surgery. Another considers suicide risk (self-reported) and another occupational performance.

This one

"Budge, S. L., Katz-Wise, S. L., Tebbe, E. N., Howard, K. A. S., Schneider, C. L., et al. (2013). Transgender emotional and coping processes: Facilitative and avoidant coping throughout gender transitioning. The Counseling Psychologist, 41(4), 601-647.

Eighteen transgender-identified individuals participated in semi-structured interviews regarding emotional and coping processes throughout their gender transition. The authors used grounded theory to conceptualize and analyze the data. There were three distinct phases through which the participants described emotional and coping experiences: (a) pretransition, (b) during the transition, and (c) posttransition. Five separate themes emerged, including descriptions of coping mechanisms, emotional hardship, lack of support, positive social support, and affirmative emotional experiences. The authors developed a model to describe the role of coping mechanisms and support experienced throughout the transition process. As participants continued through their transitions, emotional hardships lessened and they used facilitative coping mechanisms that in turn led to affirmative emotional experiences. The results of this study are indicative of the importance of guiding transgender individuals through facilitative coping experiences and providing social support throughout the transition process. Implications for counselors and for future research are discussed"

isn't even designed to provide any insight into the guiding research question!

YetAnotherSpartacus - thanks so much for the time you're spending drilling down into this, my friend.

What is transition? Is it sticking on a dress, or is it a medical procedure?