Politics is not for women

[RedToothBrush]

In 2018, this is how I feel.

Its a feeling that isn't going away.

Critequal that position is pretty much my position above left or right. I am feeling hopeless about the ability to do that when people have no faith or understanding of democracy and what underpins it. Its so taken for granted. That's why I despair more than anything.

Any ive just seen this fascinating piece on twitter about Trump's election:
academic.oup.com/poq/advance-article-abstract/doi/10.1093/poq/nfy003/4963814

Matt Grossman @ mattgrossman
Sexism influenced 2016 voting, despite having no effect on prior elections (& partially explains authoritarian Trump association); anger also powerfully mobilized sexists, a group that would normally be likely to stay home; New POQ

So someone has done a study showing actively that sexists were part of strategy to win. That trend is continuing.

I agree. The thing that bugs me is the landscape in which public discourse occurs is completely devoid of rationality and critical thinking skills more often than not.

I was re-reading Mary Wollstonecraft's "A Vindication of the Right's of Women" lately and THAT one book was better recieved and became part of the politcal discussion of the time and it was written in 1792! It couldn't actually be written now in the current climate.

It's actually post-modernism that I blame, where nothing is true, and everything is always relative to something else. I am heartened by the trans debate as I am finding more women standing for truth and excercising their critical faculties and that can only be a good thing!

The only thing the opposite side has in response is more tantrums, and aggressions and totalitarian assaults on thought and thinking itself, the post-modernist paradigm is not yet deeply rooted enough for that to work though.

It's actually post-modernism that I blame, where nothing is true.

This is my endless frustration. The academy has been entirely corrupted. And it wouldn't matter if it was contained in a bubble on campus but it isn't. The conveyor belt of elite university to media or think tank or policy making or politics means that this nonsense now occupies the top of all our institutions. Even the charities supposed to be helping vulnerable people are infected with it and impose absurd policies.

We have a mediating class entirely divorced from the realities of people's lives and entirely incapable of formulating practical and pragmatic policy that improves as many lives as possible with as little collateral damage as possible.

This is why I fear a backlash from the extremes of the right - not the sensible right, CritEqual! - because they will, at least, have the veneer of common sense on their side.

Sexism had no effect on prior US presidential elections?

But wasn't 2016 the first election to have a woman candidate?

"Matt Grossman @ mattgrossman
Sexism influenced 2016 voting, despite having no effect on prior elections (& partially explains authoritarian Trump association); anger also powerfully mobilized sexists, a group that would normally be likely to stay home; New POQ

Matt Grossman @ mattgrossman
Sexism influenced 2016 voting, despite having no effect on prior elections (& partially explains authoritarian Trump association); anger also powerfully mobilized sexists, a group that would normally be likely to stay home; New POQ

So someone has done a study showing actively that sexists were part of strategy to win. That trend is continuing."

"I was re-reading Mary Wollstonecraft's "A Vindication of the Right's of Women" lately and THAT one book was better recieved and became part of the politcal discussion of the time and it was written in 1792! It couldn't actually be written now in the current climate."

come now.... that is surely not right....

What boulshred said - for most of my life I thought the fight was over. It's not. A lot of women in power are my ageish (51) and are still under that delusion, creating the anomaly the female brocialist. Red is right but we mustn't accept the current status quo. To refer, yet again, to the trans debate, the TA voice wouldn't be so violent if they didn't fear women and where there is fear there is potential power. That sounds awful but i hope you know what I mean.

"TA voice wouldn't be so violent if they didn't fear women and where there is fear there is potential power. "

that's more like it!

There doesn't haven't to be a far right backlash at all. What this needs to become is a liberty vs totalitarian backlash, there are forces on both the left AND the right that would seek to use the levers of state power to crush their enemies. I mean come on that is the politics of the playground not of a higher civilized society.

In fact I'd go so far as to say the ideological distinctions are more meaningful here in general society. In the politcal classes they just basically take turns to aggrandize themselves and their cronies. I don't think the multi-millionaire Corbyn and his illk are hugely different in that respect.

There is a fundemental truth in human behaviour that we follow incentives, the left cannot afford to fix poverty as when people's individual wealth and security increases their alliegence more often than not shifts to the right, so in order to survive and maintain power the left rather than try to fix poverty has instead to try to create dependencies.

I'm currently in the processes of forming my own ideas so I can't honestly come here and say I have an entire solution, I'm generally for smaller governments and free markets, but I can see the need for a social saftey net. However I am becoming increasingly suspicious of when the state tries to do it!

I am trully saddened by what has happened in the halls of academia, as it seems like that is where the first battle was lost, and I'm personally ashamed to say I'm not entirely sure when it was lost.

That video posted by thanksforthatamazing actually demonstrates where things have gone wrong IMO.

Feminism used to have a real message. Now it has been co-opted by the capitalist patriarchy which allows women to do all their “fuck you! I’m a survivor, an independent woman who doesn’t need a man!” as long as they’re super skinny, prancing around in underwear and shaking their arses in our face as a form of empowerment.

It allows everyone to believe we’ve “made it” when we quite clearly haven’t, at the same time as causing a resentful backlash in men who see feminism as a “fuck you” message and who, let's face it, are eagerly looking for a reason to discredit it.

We’ve been hoodwinked.

Ah well, just trying to cheer folk up.

The Robert Palmer original shaped my adolescence. So discovering the Robert Palmer parody absolutely made my day (it's the number 1 video).

I'll bugger off and enjoy it.

Ah sorry thanks I didn’t mean to be grumpy! I appreciate the sentiment truly

And I love the RP send up.

I do community work in the local primary was delighted to see all the kids dancing around to the Shake It Off video

in my own work with them, my biggest problem is lyrics. Not swear words but crap like "I've been so lucky, I am the girl with golden hair"

Give me 2018 any day, And reckon Mary W's with me.

The conveyor belt of elite university to media or think tank or policy making or politics means that this nonsense now occupies the top of all our institutions.

That is a very scary thought.

If you feel burnt out, take a step back from it all, while others keep going.

Red - I showed your post of 17:50 to my husband so he could understand how I feel.
The only thing that keeps me going is finding people here and on Twitter who understand - that and taking regular breaks from the madness.
Oh - and one more thing - getting off twitter and mumsnet and doing something that reaches out of the bubble - like emailing politicians. Then I feel less like my voice isn't being heard.
We have to keep going though. It's too important.

Red Just seen you posting on the other thread. Ignore me. Do what you think best.

NONE of the ABOVE .
..this is exactly how I'm voting it will be counted ...As a NO vote Protest votes - clarity and number
To establish a right to say 'no' in UK elections

1. your protest vote must be clear, and
2. the number of protest votes must multiply.

Ensure your protest vote is clear

• Don't put a cross (or tick) anywhere.

• Don't write anything else which could identify you, or create any uncertainty or excuse.

• Just put a single line through all the boxes

Write NONE across the ballot paper, so that your intention is clear beyond dispute.

It will then be indefensible to classify it as 'voter's intention uncertain

Do 'none' votes get counted? I've seen spoilt ballots recorded but can't remember seeing a separate number for ballots where the voter has written 'none of the above'. Is it not all the same?

I've seen the list of candidates in my ward for next month's election and it's just all the usual, main parties - I was hoping for an independent candidate or a smaller or newer party to vote for. I'm not sure what I'm going to do at the moment.

There was a discussion some weeks ago about spoiled ballots and they are noted and even made available to read, or so one of the poll watchers said.

Red I appreciate your insights too.

Two posts I made this morning on the site stuff thread. Thought worth reposting here.

It's not awful.

Its bloody outrageous. Especially since numerous political parties are involved.

It isn't lost on me as to why TRAs seem to be over represented in political parties even if they don't have MPs (why are lesbians seemingly so underrepresented?). Their identity is their entire life and activism is everything.

Certainly I know that I'm limited in what I could do in terms of political involvement because of child care and family commitments. I can't dedicate my life to it. Even if I was dedicated and passionate. Going to conference or taking up a local post is totally out of the question. Any volunteering end up being related to kids. Austerity and a baby boom would compound any such effect. And hence why student politics would be particularly influential too.

I wonder if that is the very thing which makes the difference in terms of influence - the thing that women on MN are concerned about - biological barriers and the social issues they create. Whilst there might be more women interested and involved in politics than there has been in the past, just how influential and involved at grassroots level are they? Its not just party membership, its the level of involvement within that. Particularly women with children of school age or younger. We only really hear of the number of female MPs and whilst that is important its only a tiny facet of political representation.

I wonder if this is something that has been looked and studied at by anyone. My guess is that its an area that isn't valued and is therefore overlooked. Any since we don't know this information, we can't fight back with it.

I wonder if MN would be interested in exploring this as an issue at some point. In terms of any campaigning they do on other subjects, its relevant because its possibly why there is a need for MN to campaign in those areas in the first place, because these issues don't have as many champions within politics - at all levels - as they deserve.

I find that MN is one of the only channels I can be political and potentially have any effect because of social structure, political structure and the reality of my life.

Even if its just about awareness and providing an alternative view point which isn't immediately put in the bin because its simply a lone voice in a room of people who don't share the same priorities. You can chip away for years on a subject and make a difference here. Even if its just supporting people feeling abandoned by society and politicians for whatever reason.

That's important even if no one ever really sees it as a big thing or massive achievement. The stuff on post natal care has sprung from exactly that type of thing. It would never go anywhere within the confines of a political party. I really do applaud MN for going for it. That political parties are not seeing this gap and recognising this and doing something about it, is poor.

The current political climate makes it very difficult for isolated voices to get heard. There isn't much listening to voices outside the echo chambers of traditional political power. Even with the new influence of twitter and facebook, i'm not sure everyone is being involved in the massive political changes currently happening.

Its been a criticism for some years now. If you are not highly involved and in the right circle, you have very little opportunity or ability to be heard. Not everyone can do that.

Work to think of alternative channels of communication and involvement is much needed.

We currently have a dynamic where it's about political parties speaking at the public rather than listening better. Divergence from the official sanctioned line or even the unofficial line, isn't tolerated. And you have to be on script with the latest political outrage, rather than talking about something from an alternative approach. This has got worse, not better in recent years.

This is MNs power, and what attracts a lot of users to the site. The trivial stuff is important too, but I do believe the glue that keeps it sharpest is this aspect of the site; the constant low level political buzz on even the mundane that doesn't have life elsewhere. You don't have to be a crazy headed activist to be involved or contribute something meaningful and worthwhile and you don't have to know it all to get a point heard.

I don't know. I just find what is missing from politics noteworthy by its absence.

The irony of what you say, red , is that one of the platforms on which women fought for suffrage was ‘women’s issues’ - proper maternity care, infant care, support for women as mothers = biology. Also in the 1920s, access to contraception and even then, abortion if needed. Again biology.

Women were active at a grassroots level, also many of the gains of the 1970s and 1980s were achieved by women acting collectively at grassroots (childcare, refuges, activism against domestic violence, family planning, abortion = factors which are biology specific; domestic violence is a sex-based crime)

Women still do provide services supporting other women, often in charities and organisations on shoe string budgets. The support and care my DC and I have needed as been provided overwhelmingly by women who have drawn on their professional networks. These women are working extremely hard. It may not be high politics, and these are also the services which have been badly hit by cuts.

Historically speaking, the people who have been able to organise are men (time, money, and male privilege); middle class women who are educated and have more time and younger, single people. That is not to say other groups cannot and don’t organise, just that they have more barriers to overcome. That is why MN is a valuable space for discussion, it is also why it is an issue of biology which is galvanising women’s activism. The questions to ask from history are:

Why is this seen as so dangerous?
How do women overcome the barriers to activism?
What makes a difference in terms of women’s concerns being listened to?
How, if at all, is this issue different (the key point is that it fundamentally tries to remove the arguments of biology)

I need to go, but I think these are important questions.