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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

RuPaul

20 replies

StylishDuck · 08/04/2018 23:03

I was idly flicking through Wikipedia on my phone earlier and I came across the page for RuPaul. I don't know an awful lot about him, I've seen a couple of episodes of his show on Netflix because I have friends who rave about it, but that's about it. What I did find interesting was that the article claims he's a "transphobe". Obviously I know that anyone can edit a Wikipedia page but I was wondering if anyone knew what he had said or done to earn that description?

RuPaul
OP posts:
LarryUnderwood · 08/04/2018 23:05

Not sure but I read an interview with him where he said that drag race is for men so trans women would be excluded. Maybe it’s that?

LostArt · 08/04/2018 23:07

I think it was, in part, because he didn't want TIM on his show. Which sort of makes sense? Made my head hurt thinking about it.

dinosaurkisses · 08/04/2018 23:08

My understanding is that he’s an Old school drag queen- he believes that the attraction with drag, and what makes someone a good queen, is how successful a person with a male body can make themselves look female. This can either be a caricature such as Lily Savage, or someone who looks very very feminine like Courtney Act.

He believes that a trans woman who has received surgery to look more like an actual woman is “cheating”- it’s not fair to compare a traditional drag queen who has a man’s body and needs to use clever make up and dress to build a cleavage and hide their maleness to someone who has used surgery to try and pass as a woman day to day.

He pointed this out and was torn apart on social media.

Original poster
StylishDuck · 08/04/2018 23:13

That sort of makes sense. But TIMs surely don't want to be compared with drag queens? When drag queens are by definition, men who dress to look like women. That's exactly what TIMs claim they aren't.

You have to forgive my ignorance. I've been a long time lurker on these threads but never posted on them before.

OP posts:
Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 08/04/2018 23:16

I have nothing to add except i love Ru Paul

But i agree with dinosaurs explanation

Nousernameforme · 08/04/2018 23:24

One of the old queens who came out as trans made a legal case against him to stop him using shemale as it was offensive. So could be that

dinosaurkisses · 08/04/2018 23:24

I am a massive Drag Race (something that sits sometimes uncomfortably with my newly furious feminism!)

TIMs not wanting to be seen as compared to female impersonators- there are a number of competitors on DR who having finished the series have then “come out” as trans.

When asked why he was happy to let some previous entrants compete despite their trans status, Ru Paul has pointed out that those individuals haven’t begun a physical transition, so didn’t have any advantage over other competitors who still identified as male.

He was hung out for dry for calling a spade a spade and pointing out the fucking obvious.

Original poster
StylishDuck · 08/04/2018 23:28

Ah @dinosaurkisses that makes more sense. So he said he was happy for TIMs who hadn't started any physical transition to compete because they were still physically male? Makes perfect sense to me but I can see how TRA's would jump on that. As you say, pointing out the fucking obvious 🙄

OP posts:
Ereshkigal · 08/04/2018 23:31

That article shouldn't be allowed to stand. How is it factual to casually slur someone as a transphobe in a Wikipedia entry?

Trumpdump · 08/04/2018 23:34

He won't let natal women compete in drag race either... guess he's a misogynist too?

thebewilderness · 09/04/2018 03:50

Thanks for the explanation. I had thought it to be in response to the transgender identified males refusing to allow drag performers at PRIDE.
I do not watch TV so I miss the celebrity tiffs.

missbonita · 09/04/2018 10:50

Ru Paul is not a trans or anything else phobe. He quite astutely made the point that you cant have it both ways. If transwomen are women, they cannot also be drag queens who are MEN.

Ru Paul is an inspiration to gay and black people the world over - brave, strong, beautiful and highly intelligent. You might not like him, but for some of the effeminate gay boys I grew up with, in a country where being gay is still illegal, he was so so inspiring.

Lottapianos · 09/04/2018 10:53

'He quite astutely made the point that you cant have it both ways. If transwomen are women, they cannot also be drag queens who are MEN. '

Spot on. Some TRAs just seem to want all of the things, all of the time, because they say so. RuPaul is absolutely right to stand his ground on this

MizCracker · 09/04/2018 11:01

It really is a barmy ol' world when Rupaul is labelled a transphobe Hmm

But yes, he made comments along the lines of drag being a gay male "thing" and transwomen aren't going to be cast on Drag Race. Which makes sense, right? If transwomen are women, and women can't do drag, then transwomen can't do drag 🤷‍♀️

Except, of course, a lot of drag queens go on to transition and still keep their careers and livelihoods as drag queens.

I'm torn. I love the show (clock the username) but it doesn't make sense to me.

Also, during earlier series, there used to be an ANTM-style "you've got she-male!" segment, but a contestant who went on to transition after the show went postal online and that particular catchphrase got dropped.

TheDropBear · 09/04/2018 11:21

www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2018/mar/03/rupaul-drag-race-big-f-you-to-male-dominated-culture

It seems like a blurred line regarding what's ok to compete with though. In season 9 Peppermint who is trans competed which RuPaul says is ok because while she identified as female she hadn't had breast implants yet. But then in the same season there was Trinity Taylor who isn't trans (afaik) but has had a lot of surgery including bum implants which obviously creates a more feminine shape.

DJLippy · 09/04/2018 19:56

At first glance it does look like an unfair slander because it is a female impersonation show, and hormones and surgeries would give some contestants an unfair advantage. However, being a realistic looking (or 'fishy') woman is not enough to win - humor, personality, dress making skills and lip syncing/performance ability are far more important. Also, some in the trans community feel like Ru Paul is unfair to make this distinction between drag queens and transgender women because the history of drag is a history of gay men AND transwomen. It undermines their contribution to the art form. I think this is a valid criticism.

IMO I get the impression that RuPaul doesn't fully accept transgenderism and maybe he thinks it's a way that effeminate gay men can 'opt out' of being gay. I have no evidence, but that's just the vibe I get watching his reaction to queens on the show who came out as trans.

ElspethFlashman · 09/04/2018 20:10

I dont really have a problem with any trans person performing on the show because I honestly dont think it confers any advantage.

Peppermint did well but it was her nice personality and good performance that earned her a high place. And she still didnt win. Also Peppermint very much looked lile someone who was just at thw beginning of their transition so actually looked so much like all the others in civilian clothes that I watched the whole season without realising she was trans. So it honestly seemed to make zero difference.

ElspethFlashman · 09/04/2018 20:17

For example, Peppermint is on the left and thats a cameraman on the right (for an amazing challenge where the crew were made into drag queens, it was glorious).

So Peppermint certainly wasnt a ringer.

RuPaul
Destinysdaughter · 09/04/2018 20:20

Ive never watched the show so can't comment on it, but read this article on Buzzfeed about it, re him being transphobic. The comments underneath the article were v interesting...

www.buzzfeed.com/michaelblackmon/rupaul-drag-race-queen-trans-transphobic?utm_term=.wxWdJ6VB6#.bmYKkdrnd

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