Caitlin Moran in today's Saturday Times

[JellySlice]

Yes.

How can any Western woman say she is not a feminist, when she takes a feminist life for granted? Women uncertain whether they are feminist, or want to be, need to read this.

(I'm reading this in the paper, and do not have a subscription to link the article. Perhaps someone else could?)

I love Caitlin Moran. Here’s the link but I’m not sure if people can read it without a subscription.

www.thetimes.co.uk/magazine/the-times-magazine/caitlin-moran-were-all-feminists-really-vrk7wcs0d

Excellent article.

It always bugs me when women complain about feminists. Because I want to say without feminists you wouldn't have a voice to bloody complain.

Here's a share token for it here www.thetimes.co.uk/article/caitlin-moran-were-all-feminists-really-vrk7wcs0d?shareToken=c65ba98caf026ce5d498999a8b0306fa

Some of the comments underneath are very cross!

I've found it really interesting reading the Times in the last 6 months - and while I roll my eyes at the "feminazi" brigade it's been really helpful to read intelligent opposing views to things that I hold dear. And sometimes I have to recognise that I have no adequate response to them.

I've been told on this very forum that as a SAHM I cannot be a feminist. It's rubbish, of course I am. Every woman enjoying the freedoms we have in this country is a feminist. Just look at how backwards other places are in regards to women's rights.

I'm not sure why feminists would support the claim that a man in a dress and a bad wig is also a woman, no matter how fervently he and others wish it to be true.

This comment left by a man is interesting.

@Viago I think Caitlin's a bit of a people pleaser in some ways, she's on the fence about the trans issue. All it will take will be a wrong word or phrase from her though, and the TRAs will be upon her (like Jack Monroe)

Irish yes I'd agree. It's a shame in some ways as the Times would probably publish it if she did say something, unlike the guardian etc.

Yes I noticed the 'trans rights' dropped in amongst the FGM, gender pay gap and repeal the 8th issues.

Urgh, I just noticed how she bungs "trans rights" into a list of feminist causes, ffs...

I don't like posting on feminism chat but it seems appropriate in this case. The reason for me no longer saying I am a feminist is because of the baggage attached to it.

I find talk of patriarchy as helpful as that of the worldwide military industrial complex or Big Pharma or a New World Order. So perhaps I was mistaken in thinking I was a feminist anyway.

I am all for equality of opportunity. Is that enough? If so I'm in and always have been and always will be.

Nowtowork. Apologies if I have misunderstood! But do you think that the idea we live in a patriarchy is basically a feminist conspiracy theory?

NowToWork

There is no doubt that a lot of people find words like patriarchy and women's oppression to be a bit eye roll inducing.

And I can see why.

But when the concept is explained, people tend to agree, but still have a problem with the wording.

Maybe a better wording would be chauvinistic society, instead of patriarchy? And disadvantage to women, instead of oppression?

Two women a week killed by men, 85,000 women a year raped by men and the #metoo campaign running to 11,000,000 posts in under 24 hours would indicate that feminism is indeed necessary. Despite laws that aim to address these issues.

The only reason to disagree that women are 'disadvantaged by a chauvinistic society', is if you disagree that sexism exists.

When there is a wealth of evidence to the contrary, from men being the default for heart-attack symptoms, crash test dummies failing women as they conform to male physique, women being discouraged from stem subjects, and having no autonomy over their own bodies.

The disadvantage to women in our society isn't an opinion.

Equality of opportunity, is obviously a good thing. Ensuring that women can be educated, for a start.

But the reason equality of outcome doesn't happen is because of sexism. Unless you just think that women are disadvantaged by choice.

Not a conspiracy theory.

Founded, it's my reaction I'm describing.

Ugh the comments

“The investigation into the CPS revealed police were trained to conceal evidence to get rape prosecutions up. We’re also imposing an unlimited fine on companies because college educated women can’t understand disparity doesn’t equal discrimination when it comes to pay.
If you’re still a feminist at this stage you’re mentally ill beyond all help and I pity you. To frame it in language you’ll understand — you’re so mired in privilege you can’t see it, ladies.“

MRAs always come out of the woodwork when there's an article by a well known feminist.

I'd always regarded CM as very much a libfem and can't imagine her ever saying anything gender critical.

Would be happy to be proved wrong though...

@terryleather yes and it's especially disappointing given her generally good grasp of class analysis. But I'm waiting for her to put a foot wrong. Then she'll see.

She’s a total disappointment. Writes books on feminism but is too cowardly to speak up about the trans madness. And she’s intelligent to see that it’s madness.

I find her extremely irritating. Here are a couple of articles. They are oldish.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/transgender-politics-v8bj3529cfq

www.buzzfeed.com/annanorth/why-feminism-cant-afford-to-ignore-transgender-wo?utm_term=.dmLye0rY7#.qq9Q0L2PG

I consider her (from reading her work) to be a lib fem. Interestingly most of the trans people I know IRL, along with the TRAs online, consider her a massive TERF.

Really? How?

And she’s intelligent to see that it’s madness

The article from 2011 refers uncritically to a 10 year old boy having "gender realignment surgery"

She wrote something totally mindless a few years back about how she didn’t get why women and transwomen don’t get on as we are all after the same thing and are all sisters or something massively libfem Luke that. I do hope her thinking has evolved since then a little.