I think this 'gender equality' move is bonkers (NB: not trans)

[Mumsnut]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5578639/Police-force-severs-ties-male-voice-choir.html

Fucking hell this is stupidity’s thick cousin.
My DS is colour blind, I wonder if we should all cease wearing red because he can’t join in with seeing it?

Surely this is actually a cost cutting exercise, but some bright spark came up with the idea of branding it a move towards gender equality instead?

"I feel like we are being torn away from our past and history whether we want that or not."

This.

Love the glorious sound of male voice choirs.

Surely this is actually a cost cutting exercise, but some bright spark came up with the idea of branding it a move towards gender equality instead?

I doubt there is any funding for choir by the police other than by being provided with a rehearsal room. The choir master has suggested it is a diversion from that force's gender pay gap which is apparently amongst the worst.

But the choir isn't made up of police officers, they are civilians.

I wonder if the Mail is bending the facts here for the sake of a clickbait headline.

The choir is called "The Derbyshire Constabulary Male Voice Choir". The Mail story states that "From June onwards the choir, which is made up of civilians, will change its name to the Derbyshire Community Male Voice Choir." Well, frankly, if the members of the choir are not members of the Derbyshire Constabulary, why should the choir be named to imply that they are? And apparently they wear police uniform tunics when they perform in public, which I am surprised was allowed.

I suspect that when the choir was created it was all police officers, but over time there weren't enough singers so they recruited from outside, and now none of the choristers are policemen. And it's time to update the name to reflect that.

I wonder if the Mail is bending the facts here for the sake of a clickbait headline.

Almost certainly

Well, frankly, if the members of the choir are not members of the Derbyshire Constabulary, why should the choir be named to imply that they are? And apparently they wear police uniform tunics when they perform in public, which I am surprised was allowed.

Indeed

This is one of the lead stories in The Times today and the comments are as scathing as on here

This one in particular made me laugh #ManFriday

^Utterly, utterly ridiculous, the world really is going mad.

However it occurs to me that the obvious response would be for one or more of the current members to immediately self-identify as female - and then see what the idiot Chief Constable has to say.

Sorry, that was their quote not mine (gosh, I wish there was an edit button)

Utterly, utterly ridiculous, the world really is going mad. However it occurs to me that the obvious response would be for one or more of the current members to immediately self-identify as female - and then see what the idiot Chief Constable has to say.

The message might be getting through.....

The Times says that the choir was originally composed entirely of policemen, but now accepts men from all backgrounds. Presumably to keep up numbers.

I heard on the news this morning that the Derbyshire police have the worst pay gap record.

Perhaps this is their way of putting that right

Maybe there is a bit more to this? According to the article the choir is not made up of police officers - it is entirely civilian.

Managers, public and private sector, presumably have to go through anti-(whatever)ism training. That's where this madness stems from, and why they all seem to be singing from the same (mixed voice) songsheet.

The Times is clear that the Chief Constable told the choir to accept women or face losing its 60-year association with the police service.
So it does seem to be as bat shit as the Mail suggested.

A lot of work places had their own brass bands/choirs etc. They usually had a lot of workers in one place. It is good for teamwork. These days, numbers are cut, recruitment is cut, and headquarters moved and rationalised so it probably included retired policemen who used to have to retire early and move onto other jobs, then their relatives and friends, then anyone else to keep the numbers up.

Telling them to change to 50% women is a massive interference in the musical direction of the choir and I cannot see any musical director being happy to take that lying down.

The comments under the Times article

"How to respect the judgement of Peter Goodman? Is he intellectually capable of running a bath, let alone a police force?"

"However, I note that women are still not accepted as sperm donors. Work remains to be done to bring about an equal society."

"However, I note that women are still not accepted as sperm donors. Work remains to be done to bring about an equal society."

"Mr Goodman should definitely think again and form a Ladies' Choir.
Don't know what he would call them - the Clitoris Chorale possibly?"

Nooooooo. male voice choirs are absolutely wonderful. It will be a loss to music if they are not allowed to happen. Glad they are keeping going and I hope they find somewhere to practise.

However, I think, if it were still made up of serving police officers the force would have had to look at the balance of male to female officers in their force before buggering about with a choir, if that is not equal how could they expect the choir to have an equal balance of male to female officers if the pool they are recruiting from is not equal.

I know nothing about singing. But isn't this all about how deep men can sing, as opposed to women?

I agree, it's nonsense. No feminist would give two hoots.

One of the first comments was very interesting though. Along the lines of how come it only goes one way? Why not 'inclusion' in rape refuges?

The general public have no idea.

Hey, be warned, this is the Mail, you know. I'm prepared to bet there are other aspects to it.
In 27 years of singing in choirs the constant problem I've seen is that recruiting men is harder than recruiting women. I don't know why. (Discuss.) I wouldn't attempt to run a male voice choir except in an exclusively male environment where you haven't got a choice, just because otherwise you're making life really hard for yourself.

Ridiculous.

re the civilian thing - is it possible many/some of the members are Special Constables?

Because if so, I think there is a genuine link between the police force and the choir. Special Constables wear police uniform and carry out the role of a police officer when on duty, but on a part time voluntary basis.

If there is no real link then I suppose it is reasonable to disassociate the group from the police - not for reasons of "gender equality" though!

I do like the idea of 50% of the choir identifying as female for a couple of hours every Monday evening.

(I also get into arguments with people who say that women shouldn't be allowed to sing Renaissance music because they wouldn't have been allowed to do it back then. I mean, honestly.)

The Times reports this clearly about the Chief Constable insisting that the choir accept women:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/derbyshire-constabulary-male-voice-choir-is-told-it-must-let-women-join-70mr0zb9f?shareToken=e414ef85397e34987219f660ad9dad30