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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

The Fawcett Society

22 replies

Thegirlinthefireplace · 03/04/2018 17:39

I was on a thread about a month ago which I can’t find now (advanced search not working for me) where a few of us were wondering what the Fawcett Society position on gender identity was, and I found this

www.fawcettsociety.org.uk/fawcetts-position-on-gender-identity

They are being very careful with their wording but it looks like they’re on the side of sense. I’m thinking of joining. Any members on here?

OP posts:
PencilsInSpace · 03/04/2018 18:14

That's interesting. I think that statement has changed from when I last read it.

There's this thread with the same link you posted above, from mid january but posters are saying Fawcett say self-ID'd TW are women.

Then there's this thread - @Terfmore talked to a couple of Fawcett people at an event stall in early March and they said they were due to review their policy.

This does look like progress, although they are still keeping their heads firmly down and not commenting on any of this stuff.

BarrackerBarmer · 03/04/2018 18:52

I find their position statement above to be cautiously encouraging and VERY carefully worded.

Especially the last paragraph.

OlennasWimple · 03/04/2018 19:07

I really like the statement, actually

CircleSquareCircleSquare · 03/04/2018 19:13

If it’s changing regularly, it’s useful to have a copy;

FAWCETT’S POSITION ON GENDER IDENTITY
We recognise and understand the difference between sex and gender. We remain of the view that gender is a social construct from which women experience discrimination, and that it emerges from the oppression of the female biological sex class. Due to this, we campaign against stereotypes and gender norms which are harmful and constrain choices for both women and men. However, the fact is that some people define themselves in terms of their gender identity and in our survey we were interested to find out what the public thinks about this.

Respondents were asked which statement best describes their view – either, “There are two genders, male or female”, or “Gender can be a range of identities”. We realise that “male” and “female” refer to sex rather than gender, but we felt when asking ordinary members of the public this was the easiest way to gauge public attitudes to gender identity in a single question.

Our focus is on the lived experience of women. We want to make women’s lives better and will continue to campaign for a more equal society free from gender discrimination. That focus has not changed.

At Fawcett we also see ourselves as part of the wider community of feminist, equality and human rights organisations. We therefore recognise the lived experiences of trans people, see feminism as inclusive, and therefore will work towards equality for women in a way in which is consistent with this.

DisturblinglyOrangeScrambleEgg · 03/04/2018 19:29

Gracious. That is extremely carefully worded, and also extremely hopeful. Well done whoever wrote that!

Thegirlinthefireplace · 03/04/2018 19:38

Well that’s very promising if they’ve changed their stance to what it currently is!

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SquishySquirmy · 03/04/2018 20:02

That's a very cleverly worded statement, and also happens to be very close to my own opinions on the issue.

There is nothing in that statement which could be construed as remotely anti-trans (good), yet it is refreshingly different from the "Trans-women-are-women-don't-be-a-bigot" narrative many groups are currently spouting.

BarrackerBarmer · 03/04/2018 20:41

On re-reading I am in fact completely heartened and understand exactly what they are saying.

Their copywriter deserves a medal.

TheDukesOfHazzard · 03/04/2018 20:57

Nice one Fawcett Soc.

jedenfalls · 03/04/2018 20:58

Ooh. Like it.

ZERF · 03/04/2018 21:13

I hadn't know much about them before.

I might join. Like this: "Create a fairer and more equal society by becoming a Fawcett member today. Together we can end sexism and misogyny for good."

They use gender but 'sexism and misogyny' aren't words that are being used much these days, I feel.

ZERF · 03/04/2018 21:18

Yes extremely cleverly written and something that I feel is very fair.

concretesieve · 03/04/2018 22:22

Thank you - I agree that they know exactly what the issue is.

PencilsInSpace · 03/04/2018 22:36

They need to speak up though. Looking at their news section and their blog, they have things to say about all sorts of stuff that affects women - except the gender agenda.

The Fawcett Society are incredibly mainstream and respectable. If they can't find the courage to speak up how are the rest of us supposed to?

Are things really so shit that the best we can expect from mainstream feminist organisations is that we are not thrown under the bus too explicitly?

AreYouTerfEnough · 03/04/2018 22:57

They might change their mind again though.

Are they a pressure group?

TheDukesOfHazzard · 03/04/2018 23:07

I left Labour maybe will push that membership money toward fawcett soc instead. They are v established well regarded etc.

I don't blame them for giving it a swerve, flagging it on here will prob get them in spotlight, let's wait and see.

Amortentia · 04/04/2018 00:23

The Fawcett Society has produced fantastic research on the impact of welfare reforms over the past couple of years and why women as a class have been more likely to be impacted on theses changes. So, they are generally on the ball with current trend sand the impact on women.

But, this trans stuff has just come from nowhere. I think it’s taken lots of organisations by surprise, and many have rushed to be inclusive without considering the consequences. Hopefully, now many other organisations will start to think through their stance on this.

An organisation like the Fawcett society would have to change its fundamental principles of women’s oppression to swallow the whole trans/self ID stuff.

DontCisgenderMe · 04/04/2018 00:23

However, the fact is that some people define themselves in terms of their gender identity and in our survey we were interested to find out what the public thinks about this.

I can’t seem to find the results of this survey. Has anyone else found it?

EBearhug · 04/04/2018 00:30

I'm a member. They do do some great research. Can't actually remember when I joined or what triggered me to do so now - it was a few years ago.

loveyouradvice · 05/04/2018 22:25

Im a member too - knew lots about them a while back - Do wish they would engage more with the debate more - hope they are planning something.....

purpleanorak · 06/04/2018 14:12

I'm also a member, and I think that statement is excellent. I joined hoping there might be events I could attend, but I haven't really got involved in anything. Is anybody on here a more active member?

purpleanorak · 06/04/2018 14:15

PS I particularly like the implicit recognition that many people do not define themselves in terms of their gender identity. It's partly for that reason that many of us on here loathe the term "cis" being ascribed to us.

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