Met Police change rape guidelines - shocker of a quote from cressida dick

[TheDukesOfHazzard]

A few articles today - this evening standard one is not paywalled.

It's interesting. Partly because the lack of disclosure was across all crimes, but the press focus in on rape (most of us will know why).

Secondly because the "We believe you" thing was - on MN at least - never about unquestioningly believing a report at all times no matter what. It was a reaction to two things:

• Cases where women (and chidlren, probabyl men too) had reported and the police said I don't believe you go away - Saville etc Warboys had this too
• Cases where a woman had reported a rape and immediately the police had started investigating her, and not investigating the actual crime she had reported at all

So the idea that they treat victims with dignity and respect and go and investigate is fine - I mean who wanted anything else

The part that concerns me A LOT is this at the end:

"She reportedly added: "And what might be a misunderstanding between two people, clumsy behaviour between somebody who fancies somebody else, is not a matter for the police.""

This (to me) is a clear reference to "date rape" / sexual assault when the victim knows the assailant, and it happens behind closed doors, isn't it? I can't see another reading of it.

WTF?

Meanwhile we note the state of New York has just this week made it illegal for law enforcement officers to have sexual intercourse with detainees. Because rape claims were becoming epidemic and every single officer under suspicion claimed the encounter was consensual.

2018, my friends.

Abra1de

Thanks for commenting.

Any view on what cressida dick has said?

Given that she is the head of the met and "some on MN" are not.

Not loving it but I don't think she's talking about rape.

Then she needs to clarify.

Yes she does, and that pretty ironic given her stance.

Repeating my comment from other thread

"Given the issues over digital evidence there will never be adequate resources made available to properly investigate rape where the parties know each other.

I expect the comments quoted reflect how the criminal justice system are handling this. Stop throwing resource at "acquaintance" rape.

I expect whoever replaces Alison Saunders will take up this line also."

MrsHathaway -

yes that sort of thing. Like upskirting. You assume it's already illegal / against the rules.But it isn;t.

(New York link - I hadn't noted that the change had been made in response to journalistic exposé and local pressure)

It's not OK but equally if there isn't enough resource to go round they have to prioritise somewhere.

Perhaps they could start with not interviewing a mother of four for her comments on Twitter regarding Mermaids as a 'test' case, and spending the night for two officers in a hotel in order to conduct the interview.

Posie, aka Kelly-Jay Keen-Minshull

vimeo.com/260557348

I wish this was on Chat or something like that so that it could get a wider audience, this is shocking. We're slipping back into the dark ages - or the 1970s - either way this woman putting other women in danger.

LotsOfStats - I am very sorry for what he did to you and that you saw no result from reporting it to police.

At least they were nice to you though, maybe that's all we can ask

You can start a thread Staples? I'll comment (although later going out for a bit now!).

I always feel nervous about feministing out of this section, that's ridiculous though isn't it, all women and parents of girls need to know this is the Met's approach.

TheDukesOfHazzard Exactly, and I still don't understand how upskirting isn't illegal. The only conclusion you can reach isn't a happy one for women.

'AIBU to think that If you reported a burglary you'd expect to be believed'. How does that sound?

What is upskirting? Is that someone taking a photograph up a woman's skirt without permission?

Aoifeaye Yes. You'd think under your clothing would be private.

Well. Another police officer said (last year I think) that police might have to stop investigating the lowest level of downloading child abuse images because it was too prolific.
Basically the police can't deal with men's sex crimes.
It would be nice if they came up with a more detailed suggestion than just "not putting resource into it".
But I feel this needs a multidisciplinary response (and proper consideration by politicians).
Which ain't gonna happen while men are mainly in charge

‘officers must have an open mind when an allegiance made and not just blindly believe’ agree in general.

‘It is very important that victims to believe that they are going to be believed’ agree.

‘Our job ... is to be fair, to be impartial,and where appropriate to bring to justice and of course to support victims’ agree.

‘If it’s s long time ago or it’s very trivial or I’m not likely to get a criminal justice outcome I’m not going to spend a lot of resources on it’ agree with very trivial but would want to know terms of reference. A
man placing his hand on my bottom wouldn’t scare me but would my 80-year-old mother. And possibly my daughter. So trivial to me but not them.

Aoifeaye Yes. And it's not illegal, not even if you are a male teacher in a school who was caught doing it - though you will face suspension.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/teacher-andrew-corish-film-up-schoolgirls-skirts-no-prosecution-not-illegal-judge-rules-croydon-a8041806.html

Regarding the 'hands on the knees' allegations. The one I know of in the media involves a much older man who was a family friend and she knew him from when she was little. Now that instance does cross a line.

"If it's a long time ago, or it's very trivial, or I'm not likely to get a criminal justice outcome, I'm not going to spend a lot of resources on it"

I did try to say that the Police are shite when it comes to female sexual assault and rape. I got shot down for it with 'but not all police, and but what about the cuts, and it's not their fault'.

The problem is, MOST rapes are via someone you know. It's more than likely to be in a house, it's more than likely there are no witnesses, and it doesn't always end in injury (so no physical evidence), so it's very very very unlikely that you will ever get a criminal conviction beyond reasonable doubt.

This says to me, that women (already) don't report, are even more likely now to not report (after the rugby rape trial - which had EVIDENCE), and more so now after this statement - and women accept sexual assault and rape as part of being a woman.

They're justifying a resource decision by trivialising the whole issue.

It's one thing for people in the police to think this (we know many do), but to officially announce it? Is this fucking Gilead?

This.

I'm beginning to think that cases of sexual violence and child abuse should be taken out of the hands of the police and be dealt with an entirely different criminal justice system, designed to support the victim so that they are not retraumatised dozens of times through the process.

I'm beginning to think that cases of sexual violence and child abuse should be taken out of the hands of the police and be dealt with an entirely different criminal justice system, designed to support the victim so that they are not retraumatised dozens of times through the process

YES. But I don't know what.

I think it should be a version of civil court, but without fees or compensation involved. But perhaps once balance of probabilities has been proven, then the rapist/attacker can have punishment via community service and rehabilitation, and the woman can have the 'justice' in being believed and the attacker having some consequences.

I suppose I'm just having trouble reading this clumsy behaviour between somebody who fancies somebody else, as meaning date rape.

Maybe I'm being naive...

Sexual violence and sexual assault should not be conflated.

Regarding the word 'sexual' what does this mean?

Is it related to sex? Sex as a class?

Certainly it's not gender.

Gender assault and gender violence certainly doesn't cut it.

Certain half deserted, is the context of the police, reported crime, cuts, and what we know if under reporting / conviction rates, what do you think she means?

"And what might be a misunderstanding between two people, clumsy behaviour between somebody who fancies somebody else, " these are excuses that men often make for sex offences.

Women don't go to the police because a man they don't fancy asks them out.