Trans training....

[Queenofthedrivensnow]

Ok so it's happened at work. Within a cultural training context.

I have been strictly told now that gender dysphoria is a medical condition and that it's caused by hormone rushes or missing hormone rushes at conception in the womb. I wasn't aware this was now laid down as proven theory but happy to be corrected.

Training was very 'well I know lots of trans people therefore I know better'

Thoughts on this? It's unlikely to come up again any time soon where I work maybe annually I'm not sure.

I missed out when a transwoman came to our workplace to talk about diversity as I joined a few months later.

I don't know what they talked about - I also don't think there is any prove n cause of gender dysphoria - and as is well known, there are lots of different ways to be trans.

It would have been interesting if a transwoman disagreed with another transwoman at a diversity talk about what being trans meant.

Would I have been reprimanded?

I don't see how they could have reprimanded you. But how much they dismissed your alternative views I think would depend on whether they were a transactivist type (see Action for Trans Health etc) or a well meaning Equality and Diversity type person.

But the hormone thing? Any ideas?

The hormone thing has been put forward as a speculative reason for gender dysphoria but AFAIK there is very little evidence to support it.

It's a theory, it's not accepted fact. Who was giving this training, was it someone internal or someone from an external body?

The training was external. I don't want to name it. It covers broader issues around diversity and really it's more about corporate inclusion of diversity rather than the diversity of clients - which is what I was expecting

Hormones in the womb have also been put forward as a reason for others things such homosexuality or for effeminacy in men - but there's a big difference between being an effeminate man or a masculine woman and feeling that you are in wrong body - Trans ideology tries to muddy the waters - and even persuades some vulnerable young people that they must be trans if they are non-gender conforming - but it is actually a completely different thing.

I wonder what they believe is the cause of Body Integrity Identity Disorder (ie being trans-disabled)? Because they appear to be similar conditions - and, anecdotally, the people appearing in newspaper articles etc talking about their trans-disability seem to be disproportionately transwomen (ie able bodied males who identify as disabled women).

Of course, if they are saying that gender dysphoria is an essential element of being trans, they are very much behind the times and transphobic. I wonder to what extent trans-disability has also extended to people who are comfortable having a non-disabled body but still identify as being physically disabled?

Those who genuinely suffer from gender dsyphora or Body Integrity Identity Disorder have my sympathy, should receive appropriate support and be able to live free from abuse etc - However, acknowledging that these conditions exist isn't the same as saying that it must be because they have a 'ladybrain' in a male body or that an amputee's brain accidentally got put in a non-disabled body.

Just out of interest I googled trans-disabled and found this article

nationalpost.com/news/canada/becoming-disabled-by-choice-not-chance-transabled-people-feel-like-impostors-in-their-fully-working-bodies

Most are men. The article talks about how the transgender movement rejects transdisability; it's very much the pot calling the kettle black.
It also says that there is thought that dysphoria may be due to a neurological problem with the body’s mapping,

There is no scientific consensus as to what causes gender dysphoria.

But doesn't mean it hasn't been studied.

The hormone issue pointed towards homosexuality, as much as it did anything else. An effeminate brain, if you like. It certainly doesn't support a female brain in a male body.

This is an article which sets out the four types of gender dysphoria as they are known.

Including rapid onset gender dysphoria (ROGD) and autogynephilia.

The first of which trans pressure groups flatly deny, despite gender clinics talking extensively about it (See Polly Carmichael of the Tavistock speaking at a recent conference).

And autogynephilia is evidently prevalent. But as a fetish it undermines the whole 'born in the wrong body' narrative. So it's also flatly denied. Despite there being numerous websites devoted to it.

See #transgirls and #girlslikeus.

It's a little difficult to deny when Stonewall's own website includes transvestism as part of the official trans umbrella.

Trans-pressure groups like GIRES, Gendered Intelligence and Mermaids are very one sided.

Polly Michael pointed towards Transgender Trend, in terms of a resource (for parents). Which was very telling.

*Polly Carmichael

Forgot link, sorry.

4thwavenow.com/2017/12/07/gender-dysphoria-is-not-one-thing/

Sadly, I think you're on a hiding to nothing once HR starts mandating training on this stuff.

I don't see anything wrong with a workplace being accepting of trans, in its many guises. If someone wants to live in the guise of another sex, I'm fine with it.

The crunch issue is going to be that 'guise' thing, where it's no longer a guise. The point at which everybody is expected to believe black is white and a man is a woman, and vice versa. It's not all about women's loos (I know that), but that's the crunch point in most workplaces - the defining moment, and I feel HR departments are going to be so scared of discrimination claims, they will throw genetic women's rights under the bus.

But the hormone thing? Any ideas?

Twins. How would it work with twins.

Either all boy/girl sets would have a high rate of trans (in one direction or the other), or both of a set the same sex would be more likely to trans (eg Laverne Cox and brother)

It would have been noticed, noted, and investigated if it was real.

Are we going to start looking at genetic reasons for every sexual behaviour? Is there a little bit of masculinity in women who prefer jeans to skirts? is there a little bit of femininity in men who nice underwear?

Furthermore, are we going to start presenting theoretical reasons for why each of us turns out how we do, and presenting them as fact?
Ultimately we are all biological entities and thus our behaviours are going to be down to electrical, chemical and biological processes, even learned behaviour must be manifested via those processes. It doesn't make it 'ok' to be voyeur, or that we all need to embrace a guy who gets hard when he wears tights.

A fair bit of research into twins has happened (not for this purpose though) and they aren't as identical as we think. They often suffer different illnesses, and exhibit different abilities within a few years. Yes there are massive similarities that seem to outweigh differences, but significant differences do still exist.

I've looked at the website for the training company it just calls it 'gender awareness' with no further clarity

Queenofthedrivensnow

But the hormone thing? Any ideas?

If trans ID is created by hormonal exposure in the womb, then why do we find that some people ID as trans but thier twin doesn't? The twins are in the same in-utero environment.

abcnews.go.com/Health/identical-twin-boys-transgender-brother-sister/story?id=15142268

Hate to link to The Sun & Mail but...

www.thesun.co.uk/living/4160940/identical-twins-sibling-transitions-gender/

www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-5324401/Trans-man-reveals-girlfriend-heterosexual-him.html

Oh don't worry I assumed the hormone thing was rubbish I just wanted some clarity!

So you’re saying the OP is right. Older women do have diminished value in the eyes of others.

They aren't.
Modern research has discovered that genetic mutations between monozygotic twins start happening weeks after conception, that's nothing to do with this issue though, but still, 'identical twins' are not genetically identical.

basically, every time a cell divides it replicates DNA, but fairly often it makes a mistake and a mutation takes places. Millions of mutations take place over time.
Twins are still extremely similar - but they aren't identical.

As for this hormone theory - it's akin to many other claims about homosexuality, aggression etc it's a 'reason' why someone is the way they are. It's usually a defence argument that 'I was born this way'.

It is of course, entirely speculative and should not be presented as fact.

I am willing to believe there is some biological basis for transsexuality, just it seems the jurys out on that so to claim that its hormone washes or whatever as fact, is silly.

Of course though, 'transsexuality' is not whats meant by 'trans' is it...'trans' as it means today, no no biological basis for that I am afraid. just people pushing back against stereotypes, seeking attention or men with a fetish.