Killers released to kill again

[Popchyk]

Has it struck anyone else that we seem to have a spate of convicted killers let out of prison who go on to kill (women) again?

Three cases in the last three months.

• Stephen Unwin and William McFall murdered Quyen Ngoc Nguyen. Both were already convicted murderers and had met in prison before killing her. Express link

• Simon Mellors hanged himself after killing Janet Scott. He had already murdered another woman in 1999. Manchester Evening News link

• Theodore Johnson (jailed after killing 3 of his partners or former partners) BBC link

And of course John Worboys is set to be released because he is no longer a threat to society.

Also Robert Trigg last year was jailed for killing two of his partners (having initially got away with the first one for years).

Doesn't exactly generate great faith in the system, does it?

A quick google shows this from 2016.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3614946/Freed-kill-Nearly-100-killers-rapists-paedophiles-life-sentences-released-jailed-life-AGAIN.html

And of course there was yesterday's news about William Jagger already on day release despite being deemed as a risk to others:

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ex-public-schoolboy-who-hacked-12251902

The system places very little value on the lives and safety of people.

The system places very little value on the lives and safety of people.

For "people" read: women.

Does anyone who works in this area know why previous offences don't seem to have much impact on later sentencing?

Is prison overcrowding part of the issue, and there's pressure to get men out on parole as much as possible?

The detective involved in Stephen Unwin's first murder case described him as "beyond rehabilitation" after the first killing. Unwin served 13 years for the first murder, having been sentenced to life.

"Mr Dobson said: "If I'd had input, I'd certainly have said he shouldn't have been released for a lot longer, purely because it was a very, very serious offence and yet he served a very minimal sentence".

BBC link

Shame this detective didn't have any input.

I wonder if there is any automatic review of procedures when a convicted murderer released on licence goes on to kill again.

Just seems lessons aren't being learned here.

You can soon add William Jaggs to the list. He wasn't supposed to be up for release at all, but he's out on day release already.

I remember reading about one violent man, believe he'd killed or severely injured multiple girlfriends and he'd been released early, the report included a phrase like "he did not pose a threat to the public". Clearly when they decided to release him they meant "public" to mean other men.

It's sickening.

This is not killing - but I can tell you I know personally of a man currently in prison, who will be released next year, who is a danger to women.

He was found guilty of rape and online viewing of child abuse. He has also been found, by the family courts, to be controlling, arrogant, and has shown no hint of any remorse for his crimes. He was married to my friend.

He will hurt other women if he can - I can say that without a shadow of doubt. But he got a set prison sentence, and will be out on license after serving half of that sentence.

Related to the John Worboys case.

Parole Board head Nick Hardwick resigns amid Worboys row.

BBC link

The parole board in the John Warboys case are having to reconsider its decision.
www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/28/parole-board-must-reconsider-decision-to-release-john-worboys

News just flashed on my phone, John Warboys not to be released.

I hope this triggers a review of parole board assessments generally, not just in the Worboys case.

Clearly there are wrong decisions being made.

I hope so - there's been enough public interest in this.

That's good news - thank goodness for some sanity somewhere!

I hope this results in lessons learned about releasing these men.

Useful commentary on the Worboys decision. Absolutely the Parole Board system needs to be reviewed and properly funded.

Just an update on Simon Mellors from the BBC.

BBC link

"An inquiry known as a serious further offence review is being carried out which will examine the probation service."

From the article, it seems that Janet Scott contacted Mellor's probation officer "numerous times" about his continued threats towards her.

Also, the woman that he murdered previously, Pearl Black. Her brother and sister both wrote to the Parole Board before Mellors was released from prison, to warn them that he would kill again.

So it sounds like there was plenty of information being passed to the authorities in this case.

Oh, and then there's this man in February 2018 also.

Robbie McIntosh, convicted murderer of another woman, who was on home leave when he attempted to murder a woman walking her dog. Only reason that he didn't kill her is that two brothers heard her screams and ran to help.

Telegraph link

"Lord Arthurson said the killer posed “an enduring risk of seriously endangering the public” and the professionals involved in has case were shocked by his crime, which none of them thought they could have predicted".

A familiar tale.

I was watching programme last night on ITV, fell asleep though, initially about Peter Tobin but it did concentrate on other women who were killed in the Glasgow and Edinburgh region - sorry I can't remember the name.

One case in particular that struck me was a man who was convicted as a minor of raping and killing a 12 year old. He went on to marry and continued to rape and kill, and was violent to his wife, despite the psychologist report saying he should never be released. This was in the 70s. Obviously lessons are not learnt.

I'm just sceptical about the whole thing.

With Robbie McIntosh, the professionals involved in his case were shocked by his crime. But it was a carbon copy of his first murder. Attacked a woman walking her dog.

You'd be "shocked" if Ann Widdecombe or Ed Sheeran suddenly committed that kind of crime. But not someone who'd done the exact same thing before.

Prisoners' previous convictions are taken into consideration at sentencing and prior to parole. However, predicting risk in human behaviour is not an exact science and research and guidance develops all the time. The proportion of murderers who go on to commit a further murder is actually very small, it's just that those cases are obviously going to make the news. I disagree that the system places insufficient value on the lives of the public and/or women. It is simply impossible to accurately predict which cases will re-offend all the time.

I can never be quite sure whether this apparent disregard for the safety of the public is caused by a desperate need to reduce overcrowding in prisons or some strange belief that even the most hardnosed killers can be rehabilitated by just sitting through some mandated lectures about killing people is wrong and nasty.

The majority of the police and prison service acknowledge that there are individuals who are going to joyfully reoffend as soon as they get the opportunity, so why do the parole board continue to ignore expert insight?

But no one is 'predicting' human behaviour. What is being assessed is the past behaviour. By your own admission past convictions are taken into account when sentencing and during parole. What is obvious is that the majority go on to repeat the crime. Some manage not to get caught and a very few genuinely change their behaviour, but they usually only offend once.

Rochelle

Seems to be a lot in the last few months. That's why I started the thread.

An unusual amount, surely, if the incidences of these kinds of cases is very small.

I suppose we can consider why that might be or we could just dismiss it out of hand.

Janet Scott had reported Mellors to his probation officer numerous times. And yet he remained free to kill her. I don't think that in his case it was impossible to predict that he would re-offend. He was already threatening and stalking her in the months before her death.

Hopefully the Serious Further Offence Review in this case will be thorough.

I think what need to be examined is whether this spate of cases is being caused by a change of policy towards more leniency, a lack of resources leading the parole board to not examine evidence closely enough and erring on the side of the detainee, or individuals who are not following guidelines properly.

Of course it is possible that it's a coincidence of bad timing but as Popchyk says there seems to be a number of occurrences in a very short timeframe for that to be the case.

Worth noting that the offences have happened all over the country, not just concentrated in one area where standards may have slipped.

And all of the above offences are against women. Which again might be a bit unusual.

I did a quick google and found this where another convicted murderer killed another man. 9 months after being released from his sentence for the first murder. He was sentenced for the second time in October 2017.

Manchester Evening News

I think what need to be examined is whether this spate of cases is being caused by a change of policy towards more leniency, a lack of resources leading the parole board to not examine evidence closely enough and erring on the side of the detainee, or individuals who are not following guidelines properly.

And don't forget - Chris Grayling's privatisation of the probation service is pretty much agreed to have been a disaster.

I think what we are seeing are various crises (including things like Grenfell, not just about women) caused by austerity. We're now firefighting all round.

Public spending 101: if you cut what people want they won't vote for you next time; if you cut what they need, you'll create crises that cost twice what you saved to put right.