I feel so angry to read this...

[NotTakenUsername]

...and I can’t vent properly on Facebook because I just don’t have the words required to compete with comments like, “well why didn't She scream...?” and “it’s atrocious how those boys have been treated...”

I’m so ANGRY. What on Earth are very middle class girls...? What does that even mean? What does that encompass?
Parental income? As presumably all underage if they are girls, no? Personal income? ‘Nice’ girls...?

Talk me down.

That's revolting.

to all who need them.

Freezing in order to survive is utterly normal mammal behaviour.

I saw this petition about educating jurors in rape trials- petition.parliament.uk/petitions/209573

The police didn't even pass my rape case to CPS because of this very reason.

You have no idea how many rape cases don't make it to court because the defence will say this.

I didn't scream. I was young and so utterly overwhelmingly terrified that I couldn't even let out a squeak.
I hate that particular rape myth with a passion.

This is also significant with regard to the lies the BDSM community tell about "safe words". They do no good if you have lost the power to speak which is the first thing you lose when in pain. We yell if and when we see the pain coming, not after it has arrived.

Being passed out apparently means he didn't rape you.
I want to do something about this.

I believe we freeze because running and screaming encourages predators to chase and attack.

I’m also not sure that fighting back against a rugby player would be feasible. Especially if running away wasn’t an option.

So is it consent we are to look for or just an absence of an objection? The age old problem huh.

It's disgusting.

I didn't scream, I also didn't report knowing I couldn't go through all of this shit.

The bile is building up in me just thinking about someone saying that. It's tantamount to saying "if this happened then YOU could have stopped it if YOU had screamed"

How dare they use that as a defende. This makes me fucking livid. And also so so sad, because I just don’t see it changing. Ever 😔

Again the female is to blame for being raped, because she didn't make any fuss.

When my ex partner was hitting me and kicking me, I was quiet because my children were in bed and I didn't want them to be upset. My local police force told me this was the wrong thing to do.
Nope, my children come first.

What the actual fuck? This is sickening.

Even when you know an attack is coming there is still a huge amount of shame felt, that somehow you have got yourself in this position that the idea of others knowing along with disbelief and fear leads to being unable to do anything.

I would hug you all if I could, each and every one.

I remember getting cornered by a group of lads back when I was 13/14 years old. I literally couldn't scream or cry for help, my throat closed up. Thankfully for me a guy was wandering by with his dog and they all took off. It's appalling that not being able to scream is being used as an attempt to prove that an attack didn't happen.

Anyone following this trial might be surprised to find that there are four men in the dock.

Because, to me, the only person who seems to have been put on trial is a girl who, as a teenager, went to a party and ended up bruised and bleeding internally. And then had to spend seven days being grilled about everything from her choice of underwear to her social life to her periods

This thread will be deleted though, like all the others.

But before it is, I'm going to say what I've said on them all. These men will never believe they have committed a crime. Their attitude to women (as evidenced by the messages that they don't deny) is such that they feel they were entitled to do as they wished, and the fact that she "let them" (ie was too traumatised to run away) means that she "consented".

We really have to get away from the teaching of "did she say no" to "did she enthusiastically say yes" - there is a massive, massive difference.

Why would this thread be deleted? No one is writing anything libellous.

It’s an incredibly frustrating and sad thread where people are sharing personal experiences and considering the abject powerlessness of being a woman who has been raped in any circumstances other than... well I was going to say ‘bad man in the bushes’ but then I remembered Brock Turner. I suppose being a good swimmer was relevant to whether he could be a rapist.

When questions like, “why didn’t she scream...?” And musings that imply, “there were nice girls downstairs who would have saved her... if she wanted to be saved...” is it any surprise people don’t speak up. Any surprise that people then claim #metoo is a bandwagon instead of finally empowering women to speak up!

To all the brave women commenting here - I believe you.

Just joining you in your rage.

The messages between the "men" were so horrible to read and indicative of the shitty pornified culture we now live in.

Disappointed in the guy who took her home and then covered up for his mates whist clearly aware of what had happened.

There is a petition about giving the juries in rape trials training to try to counter defence teams using rape myths:

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/209573

I believe it’s fight, flight, freeze or flop. Lots of people instinctively flop when attacked because it gives you the best chance of survival because your body and brain interpret being raped as a life threatening event and do all they can to let you walk away. It’s despicable that the body’s natural response to a life threatening event is turned around into a defence for rapists. Along with the defence that some women like violent sexual acts with complete strangers that result in injury or death and who are we to judge people’s sex lives? Ffs, is there anywhere it’s possible to be raped in the world and be taken seriously?

Good post Handbag

This is an appalling and misogynistic thing for a QC to infer about women. What is worse is that it doesn't surprise me that he will probably get away with saying it.

I didn't scream. I couldn't. There is something in me that struggles to stand up to a man. It might be in my socialization, or it might be self preservation, I don't know. All I know is that I couldn't scream.

Exactly the same. He was a big guy. I guess I thought he might punch me or something. Like you, I don't know why. I'd already been in an abusive relationship before. Like Chocolate I said no repeatedly, not that that makes any difference, but when it came to screaming I didn't. I actually am trying to remember exactly how it went now and I can't quite. I think that's probably a good thing.

Anyone following this trial might be surprised to find that there are four men in the dock.

Because, to me, the only person who seems to have been put on trial is a girl who, as a teenager, went to a party and ended up bruised and bleeding internally. And then had to spend seven days being grilled about everything from her choice of underwear to her social life to her periods

So fucking true that's just brought tears to my eyes. It is like she's the one on trial. Appalling way to treat a victim.

That's atrocious.