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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Lucy Massoud Radio 4 interview - Independent Article

36 replies

SuitedandBooted · 22/03/2018 10:53

Pretty typical "How could she, Transwomen ARE women" etc

BUT it is actually open to comments!!.

www.independent.co.uk/voices/lucy-masoud-fbu-lgbt-trans-london-fire-brigade-union-today-transphobic-a8267096.html

OP posts:
YesItsADebate · 22/03/2018 19:56

Lucy was brilliant on the Today program yesterday. Clear, articulate and assertive. Nothing she said was transphobic.

SusanBunch · 22/03/2018 20:09

Huh what? So Yas is born female yet believes she has been kicked out of female spaces repeatedly? Googled her and she looks like a woman. All I hear when I read the article is me, me, me, me, me.

So basically I should not object when a man wants to enter my space because he might have gone through a tough time. Okay then Yas.

OlennasWimple · 22/03/2018 20:37

Yas also fails to appreciate that almost every girl hates getting changed for PE, has concerns about their changing bodies, and can feel a bit of a fraud (imposter syndrome anyone?).

She also fails to make the case that allowing boys into the girls changing room will help matters for anyone at all, other than arguably the boy in question (though wouldn't it be terribly triggering for a young transgirl to be surrounded by girls, knowing that he would never be able to look like them?)

SunsetBeetch · 22/03/2018 22:15

Scottish Susie nails it:

"ScottishSusie

14 hours ago

Hey, Yas, here is my opinion on all that. I hope it can shed some light on why some people are so angry and why we now have stuff like 'Man's Friday'. So - until a couple of years ago, I had no problem with transgender people. Obviously I wanted them to have equal rights, and supported any measure that would make their lives more comfortable, including the use of their preferred changing rooms. Now, however - what we're seeing, both in online spaces like tumblr and real life, is a slide from 'I was born in the wrong body and my life is hell' to 'I don't really feel like a man' (whatever that means) - a woozy feeling that changes from week to week and can then revert back to 'I am a man after'. There is a lot of confusion on the difference between gender roles and gender identity. A lot of it. Also, this self-identifying fad is already causing victims - namely, teens who're brainwashed by this culture and blindly supported, or pushed, by their parents into taking hormones very early in life and later regret it and have to go through painful procedures to get their lives back. You can Google their stories - they're heartbreaking. And that's not even mentioning aggressive 'trans activists' targeting women online, threatening to rape us or cut our breasts off. I personally witnessed people doxxing a (lesbian) rape survivor because she'd said she wouldn't sleep with a trans woman if she had a penis - because trauma. People were vicious to her, and that's also new - this idea that you have to sleep with anyone who asks you or you're being bigoted. These people are a shame for your community, and yet I never hear anyone calling them out. Why do you support people like Andi Dier, who recently disrupted Rose McGowan's book presentation in NY? Ms Dier is a known predator - her online messages clearly states she's only interested in underage partners - and she yelled at an abuse survivor who'd offered solidariy to the trans community. And yet, deafening silence and more attacks on Rose for not being more friendly or something. And on top of that, there are all those other people - a minority for now, but who knows - whom you refuse to denounce as mentally ill or fame-seeking weirdos - those currently self-identifying as owls (owlkin), elves (elfkin), Philipino women, Black people, 9-yo girls - the list goes on. This is highly problematic. We can't have a society where you wake up on Monday, identify as a 7-yo boy and, what?, the government is legally obligated to accept you into a classroom? Or should we provide tanks for those self-identifying as mermaids and sharks? No, this has gone far enough. The trans community needs to make clear that being trans is a real and serious issue, not a circus, and not something people generally change their minds on. If you want to be taken seriously, oust those activists who behave in unacceptable ways and let's talk about this like adults. Now, obviously I can't claim I speak for other people, but what I've seen around me is that many have changed their minds on trans people because of this exact stuff - people who supported trans rights a few years ago now feel under attack from a very aggressive crowd who demands we are fired and branded as the worst scum of the Earth if we make mistakes on your choice of pronouns or refuse to acknowledge that a 60-yo man claiming to be a 9-yo girl is anything else than mentally ill. And no doubt some people were prejudiced before and are prejudiced now, but really - by not having these discussions inside the community, you're alienating your potential allies. So, maybe - food for thought?"

PlectrumElectrum · 22/03/2018 23:17

This comment sums that article up for me:

Look at me, look at me, wait don't look at me, why are people all looking at me

TerfsUp · 23/03/2018 09:59

Look at me, look at me, wait don't look at me, why are people all looking at me

Years ago, I met a transman who had just started to transition and who dressed in a very peculiar, eye-catching way. He then complained that people looked at him. Ummm. Yes. If you dress in an eye-catching way, other people will look at you.

I remember being handed their file with the name and personal pronouns blocked out. When I questioned this, I was told that I would be phoned just before our meeting with the person's name and gender and the reason these details were being withheld.

As a data point, the person had severe mental health difficulties and had been sectioned for years before I met them and still had severe mental health problems.

Iamagreyhoundhearmeroar · 23/03/2018 10:03

What was the reason, Terf, apart from denoting that they were special?

TerfsUp · 23/03/2018 10:18

Sorry, Iamagreyhoundhearmeroar. The reason for what?

Iamagreyhoundhearmeroar · 23/03/2018 10:25

Making a big production of announcing their name and pronoun?

TerfsUp · 23/03/2018 10:35

Ah. This was years ago before there was much knowledge about trans issues.

The transition process had started only just before I met the person and I think the team I worked with were trying to figure out how to approach the situation.

Iamagreyhoundhearmeroar · 23/03/2018 10:54

Ah, I see, thanks.

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