Germain Greer showing the bbc are rubbish

[Ekphrasis]

Just listening to her on radio 4 I do feel she's exposing the simplicity and black and white reporting of the bbc.

Have to say I'm not sure where I stand on what she's saying - I feel I agree with a bit of it as she explains - BUT I'd like to hear the actual debate.

I feel the payments from HW were coercion though which she doesn't seem to feel.

(Possibly unintentional click bait title, apologies )

I need to listen to it all again - it's complicated stuff.

Meant to add, on today prog radio 4, around 8:20/25

I'll listen later. She is great, always makes good argument even if she's not always right (which no one ever is).

Exactly. Look where being terrified of being viewed as wrong got us.

She's always interesting and not afraid of holding unpopular views.
I think the "me too" HW affair were good for bringing predatory male behaviour up to public scrutiny and putting a clear "this is not OK" message out but on the other hand do get exasperated with people not saying anything about abuse at the time (when they are adults, different for child sex abuse) because it might harm their careers.
I thought the interviewer was good but agreed with the interviewer that it's fine Germaine saying this isn't a good way of dealing with rape and listing the problems but what is the solution?

It's an interesting discussion that basically centres around consent and rape to wit, Greer believes that the concept of consent as it currently stands doesn't work. I think this idea has traction in the 21st century, after all, as Greer points out rape is a medieval concept pertaining to property, i.e. women seen as property.

Greer is currently writing a book on rape and I look forward to reading it.

This from Twisty - I blame the patriarchy which basically suggests to do away with consent and put women in a perpetual state of non consent and she can call out rape at any time. It's up to the man to determine if proceeding to have sex is a good idea. Controversial!

blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2007/05/12/she-said-i-know-what-its-like-to-be-dead/

The amount of outrage on twitter was amazing. I jumped up and started defending her before thinking - listen to hear what she's saying first, it must be awful, it sounds like she's finally lost the plot. What is twitter going on about? It was a nuanced and interesting point (like ever with Germaine Greer) and I have no where the moral outrage comes from. Sometimes I wonder if people are as stupid as I think they are.

Why is that when men get old they get to become Gods, but when women get old they become witches? For years I've thought she was a terrible transphobe and that's why she kept getting no-platformed everywhere. Then I listened to what she had to say and I thought - is that it? Maybe it's a bit harsh but it's no reason to go into exile is it?
Now I'm obsessed with watching her lectures on Youtube and I think I am a little bit in love. She is one of the great minds of our age. I don't agree with half the stuff she comes out with but at least she's not afraid to say it. Just started reading the Female Eunuch and I cannot believe how relevant it is - more so today than when it was written.

I found this little beauty the other day, one of those late night panel discussion's from the 1990's where everyone sits around smoking cigarettes in a live studio! I would LOVE to do a modern day version. Featuring a baby-faced Caitlyn Moran, Suzanne Moore and Janet Street Porter. Loose Feminists.

Thank you for your feedback, I'm still lessening about a lot of this but from personal experience I agree that the law around consent is murky. I still am unsure if I suffered an attempted rape once.

I have always found I agree with her once I understand her; I just need to spend time listening to her.

The BBC's headline was rubbish though. That pisses me off, but at least Greer got the chance to discuss these things a little.

but what is the solution? - I suspect it's quite complex. If you take the analogy of an iceberg, the #metoo stuff sits on top with shiny polished celebs in black posing along side some women from 'normal' lives as in the cover of a magazine. The enormous part lurking under the water, that is hard to see and does the damage but also presents the solution is the bit I suspect she's trying to explain; which can't be done in a couple of sentences.

Her book sounds interesting thanks.

*Learning

Djlippy, I agree, I've not read the female eunuch yet but it's how I feel.

I'd like to hear a moral maze with her on, but love the idea of loose feminists!

@Elendon thank you. Interesting and controversial! That scenario would actually have clarified my situation regarding 'was it attempted rape?'. I can understand it; I don't know how many others would.

Fab link dj, will watch later.

(Totally irrelevant but love GG's look there and my how times have changed re Caitlin's cigarette!)

Great link thanks - will watch later. I totally agree that Germaine Greer is always interesting and has nuanced views that are lost on others. I love the way she says that rape laws need a rethink because they're "not working" and she's right. My general understanding (could be wrong) is that she thinks that rape is so very common that it's absurd giving it such a massive sentence like murder which is not common. Because of the massive sentence, men never get convicted because juries don't like to convict in case they're wrong. Whether you agree with this or not it is thought-provoking. I totally agree that sexual harrassment and rape laws needs a total rethink
. If metoo has shown us anything, it has shown us that.

Watched half the video so far- you wouldn't get that set up now. It would be deemed transphobic and anti male.

Lisa Muggeridge being spot on as usual:
twitter.com/lisamuggeridge3/status/976088187553681408?s=21

People clearly do not understand anything GG says or is trying to say .

And no idea who this is but good point...

#GermaineGreer ... out come all the usual career feminists again, having a go at Greer!!!! Whilst remaining silent over Telford.

twitter.com/n2declare/status/976087788155228160?s=21

Why is it up to Greer to speak about Telford? That's a presumption that all women in all walks of life must gate keep in all things. It's horrid.

Where are the male voices when it comes to cases like Telford!

That wasn't meant to you OP.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p061q5fn

Clip of Greer this morning. A bit depressing.

No, all the career feminists are having a go at Germain. While they are staying silent on Telford.

I've done some looking around on twitter.

It's the career rapees comment- but no one gets what she means. She meant the hw assistant has had her career defined and ruined by her attempts to expose the rape.

Germain immediately goes on to say "nothing we are doing (eg metoo, black dresses and I assume law etc) is protecting women from rape"

And although GG doesn't say it, case in point, Telford etc. How has the law protected them?

Wearing a black dress on Oscar night has no impact on the girls in Telford. You can hash tag metoo till your finger gets rsi, it doesn't directly help them.

I think it raises it to the forefront of debate - I called out a 'friend' on fb for victim blaming for sharing a crap meme about celebs wearing so little so what do they expect, and could reference HW and metoo and various other bits (that was at his level), and other friends joined in. It's a tool for discussion in the general populace.

But protection? Bugger all.

Sophie walker incidentally doesn't get it and is involved in this debate.

Wish I could go!

@DJLippy found you on Twitter ;)

Good points. Great discussion. I shall look you up DJ - I'm not on twitter.

Agree OP. Yes, GG said the HW assistant has gone through hell and her career/life blown apart.

They are trying to set it up as GG the baddy and cause a fight, which will nicely deflect from all the huge issues that need addressing. That will suit the patriarchy very well thanks. The Lisa Muggeridge link above is very good.

Good analysis carefully.

I hope the debate makes it to YouTube. It'll probably be Friday before I can spend any time on it.

I think the conclusion on all sides will be it's not yet scraped the surface.

My only concern with lesser sentences for rape to bring more convictions is that does that allow rapists to reoffend sooner? And would it minimise the offence in society's minds?

Who'd a thought a bunch of wimmin cared more about intelligent discussion than jam making and hot flushes eh?! ;)

I wonder if our adversarial system of trials is part of the problem.

It seems to encourage the defence to hurl and twist every piece of information they can at a victim. Maybe an inquisitorial system would be better.