The W.I and the Gender Recognition Act

[SuitedandBooted]

Hi all,

I was wondering if anyone has contacts with the leadership of the W.I, and whether they think they may be interested in the campaign to get the proposed changes to the GRA debated properly?

They have a pretty conservative image, but historically, they have been involved in a number of far-reaching campaigns;

www.thewi.org.uk/campaigns/the-wi-history-of-campaigning

Trans women are women, robots there too.

Gabels

Is that from the official line, or just from members you have met? I haven't read their policy documents in depth yet.

I’ve heard that they welcome self-identifying women. Tbh, I’m not sure that it’s worthwhile or useful to target this kind of group. The case needs to be made on the basis of threats to women’s safety, dignity and privacy. Campaigning to keep trans women out of the WI runs the risk of suggesting to the public that we are big meanies who want to keep cake baking to ourselves because we don’t like to share. Trans activists will have a field day with that.

I agree with Terfy.
There are no safeguarding / privacy issues with the WI.
You can't legislate against trans women joining groups that they feel comfortable in. As we know this does have the potential for lesbian groups / feminist groups / women's health groups to have to go underground when they are taken over by those with a dominating male agenda but that is a consequence of the times we are living in.

Hmm. Looking on Google, I see they welcome men "Who live their lives as women". I just skimmed a couple of news articles, but I imagine they are really thinking of Transexual men, or certainly people who have made a long-standing, considered commitment to living all aspects of their life as a women.

Doesn't mean they are totally on board with the calling yourself Debbie on Thursdays crew, while dressing and living as a bloke, or male bodied "lesbians".

I don't think there are any major issues of privacy, dignity or nudity involved in the average WI meeting.

If transwomen want to trundle along and get involved in litter-picking, food banks and the knotty question of which weekend to hold the jam festival (not a stereotype - I just looked at the local agenda), that sounds great.

I suppose the Annual Outing might need to be renamed though.

I am not suggesting campaigning to keep all transwomen out of the W.I!

They don't only work on self-interest for their individual groups, and how they are run.
They have campaigned for and lobbied Parliament for equal pay, Aids awareness, breast screening clinics, - their campaign page is quite an eye-opener. I was hoping there was some way they could come on board, and help press Parliament for a debate

I'm not sure that the WI is going to get on board without a very clear and concise explanation.

They, rightly in my opinion, welcome men "Who live their lives as women". And, as far as I know they aren't the core issue, indeed, from experience here and in RL, many trans women would be more than happy to get behind the anti Self ID proposals.

BUT, and it is a big BUT, I suspect that they would only get behind the 'talk to us all before you seek to re-write biology' issue if it were explained very clearly, from a scientific basis, with the medical issues outlined - that is the gynea services like breast screening etc. Maybe event he medical treatments for young kids, the concatenation of sex with gender, etc.

That could lead them to decide to do more, but going in with the 'threat' aspects would probably make them back off, as they are all about inclusivity.

I suppose the Annual Outing might need to be renamed though

On principle, I don't think TIM should be in any group that is specifically single-sex because women need spaces free from men, however they identify. However, like PPs, I think campaigning about this is likely to a waste of energy. In reality, I suspect very few TIMs will want to join the WI and those that do will probably be ones genuinely committed to living their lives as women (whatever that may mean to them), not the narcissists.

Having said that, I would pay good money to see Paris and LM trying to justify self-ID to a posse of stalwart WI-ers

I’m a member of the WI.

Current stance makes sense to me. It’s also in many senses not a women’s only space. Male speakers etc

However I am vehemently against self ID especially in relation to gym spaces, refuges etc.

CuriousaboutSamphire.

I'm well aware that many "old style" transwomen don't share the attitudes of the TRA's - I know a couple who are utterly horrified at LM and crew.

That's what I was hoping to get at - is there some way we could at least start to raise the debate issue with the W.I, and have it disseminated to their members -there are 220,000 (wow!)

Just to be clear - I don't want the W.I to rewrite their membership criteria, ban all Transwomen, male speakers, or anyone who ever laughed at flower arranging!

They are a very large group of women who get behind important campaigns, predominantly but NOT entirely ones that affect women and children. If a way could be found gain their support for a debate, surely it would be helpful?

Ah well in that case there is a procedure for campaigns.

They have to be suggested by members.

They are the voted on by every group nationally then adopted by the federation.

It takes a long time

Ooh! Sorry!

That's what I was hoping to get at - is there some way we could at least start to raise the debate issue with the W.I, and have it disseminated to their members -there are 220,000 I thought I had tried to offer just that, but it seems to have come across as teaching my an MNer to suck eggs!

Again, sorry!

Whilst there are no safeguarding issues related to WI or most other women's groups, I believe that these groups have thrived for so long because they give women an opportunity to spend time out of the male gaze.

I think that for many women, this is beneficial for their mental health. I also believe that it won't be missed until it is gone.

I think the WI is a tricky one because they will have TW as members and given what I've seen of my local WI I don't really have an issue with that as it's largely a social gathering, fundraising etc..

I'm not a member but I've been to a few events held by them and there are usually plenty of men milling around so it's not really sex segregated in a big way.

I think whether the WI would want to bring up self ID as a topic will vary from group to group depending on demographics.

CuriousaboutSamphire

I wasn't being snarky - sorry too if it came across that way , - it's the joys of writing brief posts rather than talking!

Don't worry, the smile I intended in my reply didn't translate well either ...

I have a friend who is pondering the same idea. But has had some looks from older members - we are very rural and I don't think the local branch is all that vocal. Though the one the next village/small town is... so she is heading out in their direction!

I tried talking to a local self proclaimed 'women's libber' - I may have earned myself a new label, newbie and a bit militant

I will be having a look at my local branch too.

It's just the thought of them having 220,000 thousand members - we would only need around 45% to sign the petition to get it actually debated in parliament !

Men are already welcome at meetings, they just can't join or vote.